Thanks for this very nice discussion about dreams and reality. It is an interesting topic! You said ‘we’ can be ‘more spiritually developed’ than ‘others’ but from my understanding of non-duality and spirituality there is no separation between ‘we’ and ‘others’, rather a ‘oneness’ among all people. Is it not a little egoic in itself to assume that someone is less spiritual than another? Surely every person has their own spiritual path and it is counterproductive to assume that one path is ‘better’ or ‘more correct’ than another? Thanks.
Hi Linda, let me turn your questions around. Don’t forget this is just relatively speaking, or ‘within the dream of duality and separation’: do you think everyone, relatively speaking, is equally as spiritual as the next person? Think of everyone you know, think of historical figures, etc. Next, if you think of all the various cults and religions and spiritual teachings, even though they may all have their apparent place in one’s journey, do you think they are all equivalent in their spiritual worth? If you had to advise your friend or loved one, are there some organisations you would prefer they not be a part of whilst other organisations you would be less concerned about?
Thanks for your reply. It is an interesting debate. I think that, for example, Buddhism may speak to some people and Christianity or Islam to others. Some people don’t follow a particular guru or religion, they just treat people kindly. How do we define ‘spirutual’? Is a kind, loving person who never meditates or practice a religion a ‘spiritual’ person? Is someone who knows about all the books and teachings of various spiritual leaders but is sometimes inconsiderate to others ‘spiritual’? I think it is unwise to see some people as having ‘spiritual worth’ and others as not. We are all spiritually worthy, irrespective of the path we take. I wish you well on your journey Tom.
Hi Linda, yes, I agree that in essence we all have the same intrinsic spiritual worth. We are all children of God, so to speak. We all have the same inherent worth, in this sense. We also each all have our own spiritual journey, as you nicely describe above. So we can agree there.
But who would you rather your loved one receive spiritual guidance from, the Dalai Lama or Adolf Hitler? Would you rather your loved one join the KKK or a local Christian organisation? If you have a preference for one over the other, my suggestion is that you already know there are different levels of spiritual development, and this coexists with the fact that we all have the same intrinsic spiritual worth. I am using extreme examples to illustrative a point that, relatively speaking (ie. superficially speaking, and not in essence) there are levels of spiritual development that vary from ‘individual to individual’.
Note we are not judging ourselves as being more worthy spiritually or being spiritually superior, but just noting there are stages in spiritual development that we all go through in our own way. You may be interested to know that Ramana Maharshi outlined these stages in a text called Upadesa Saram, starting at verse 4 (see here: https://tomdas.com/2019/03/25/ramana-maharshi-upadesa-saram-the-essence-of-the-teachings/). This kind of spiritual development is also acknowledged in most spiritual traditions, including Buddhism where it is mapped out in considerable detail.
Thanks Tom. My point was originally about what you said in you nice video, namely the idea that ‘we’ are ‘more spiritually developed’ than ‘others’; Many people meditate, practice yoga, visit ashrams in India, study spirituality books in detail and follow spiritual gurus. These same people may also have a tendency to be unkind or inconsiderate (we are all human!). Sometimes ‘spiritual’ people are frustrated at others who are not ‘as spiritual’ as them, and therefore have a tendency to flock towards other ‘spiritually inclined’ people and away from those ‘egotistical people’. This is what I was saying was unhelpful, as it can lead to a separation from others based on one’s personally spiritual practices, which is not the true nature of spirituality. Best wishes 🙂
Hi Linda, I take your point, and I agree with it – thank you. My point in the video was simply is that there is such a thing as spiritual development relatively speaking, and I hope my examples above illustrate that clearly. Best wishes to you too, namaste
Tom Das 
Thanks for this very nice discussion about dreams and reality. It is an interesting topic! You said ‘we’ can be ‘more spiritually developed’ than ‘others’ but from my understanding of non-duality and spirituality there is no separation between ‘we’ and ‘others’, rather a ‘oneness’ among all people. Is it not a little egoic in itself to assume that someone is less spiritual than another? Surely every person has their own spiritual path and it is counterproductive to assume that one path is ‘better’ or ‘more correct’ than another? Thanks.
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Hi Linda, let me turn your questions around. Don’t forget this is just relatively speaking, or ‘within the dream of duality and separation’: do you think everyone, relatively speaking, is equally as spiritual as the next person? Think of everyone you know, think of historical figures, etc. Next, if you think of all the various cults and religions and spiritual teachings, even though they may all have their apparent place in one’s journey, do you think they are all equivalent in their spiritual worth? If you had to advise your friend or loved one, are there some organisations you would prefer they not be a part of whilst other organisations you would be less concerned about?
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Thanks for your reply. It is an interesting debate. I think that, for example, Buddhism may speak to some people and Christianity or Islam to others. Some people don’t follow a particular guru or religion, they just treat people kindly. How do we define ‘spirutual’? Is a kind, loving person who never meditates or practice a religion a ‘spiritual’ person? Is someone who knows about all the books and teachings of various spiritual leaders but is sometimes inconsiderate to others ‘spiritual’? I think it is unwise to see some people as having ‘spiritual worth’ and others as not. We are all spiritually worthy, irrespective of the path we take. I wish you well on your journey Tom.
Take care 🙏🏽
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*spiritual 😉
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Hi Linda, yes, I agree that in essence we all have the same intrinsic spiritual worth. We are all children of God, so to speak. We all have the same inherent worth, in this sense. We also each all have our own spiritual journey, as you nicely describe above. So we can agree there.
But who would you rather your loved one receive spiritual guidance from, the Dalai Lama or Adolf Hitler? Would you rather your loved one join the KKK or a local Christian organisation? If you have a preference for one over the other, my suggestion is that you already know there are different levels of spiritual development, and this coexists with the fact that we all have the same intrinsic spiritual worth. I am using extreme examples to illustrative a point that, relatively speaking (ie. superficially speaking, and not in essence) there are levels of spiritual development that vary from ‘individual to individual’.
Note we are not judging ourselves as being more worthy spiritually or being spiritually superior, but just noting there are stages in spiritual development that we all go through in our own way. You may be interested to know that Ramana Maharshi outlined these stages in a text called Upadesa Saram, starting at verse 4 (see here: https://tomdas.com/2019/03/25/ramana-maharshi-upadesa-saram-the-essence-of-the-teachings/). This kind of spiritual development is also acknowledged in most spiritual traditions, including Buddhism where it is mapped out in considerable detail.
Hope you understand what I am trying to convey
With thanks
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Thanks Tom. My point was originally about what you said in you nice video, namely the idea that ‘we’ are ‘more spiritually developed’ than ‘others’; Many people meditate, practice yoga, visit ashrams in India, study spirituality books in detail and follow spiritual gurus. These same people may also have a tendency to be unkind or inconsiderate (we are all human!). Sometimes ‘spiritual’ people are frustrated at others who are not ‘as spiritual’ as them, and therefore have a tendency to flock towards other ‘spiritually inclined’ people and away from those ‘egotistical people’. This is what I was saying was unhelpful, as it can lead to a separation from others based on one’s personally spiritual practices, which is not the true nature of spirituality. Best wishes 🙂
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Hi Linda, I take your point, and I agree with it – thank you. My point in the video was simply is that there is such a thing as spiritual development relatively speaking, and I hope my examples above illustrate that clearly. Best wishes to you too, namaste
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