Q. But don’t the scriptures talk of Nirguna and Saguna Brahman? Nirguna Brahman is the only true Brahman | Shankara’s commentary on Brahma Sutras

The following is taken from the much longer post here which explores this topic in more depth.

Tom: Yes, or rather Shankara in his commentaries speaks of these – Nirguna Brahman (Brahman without objects or without arising phenomena) is the true formless Brahman that exists without any arising phenomena or forms, and when there is ignorance present, we take ourselves to be a body-mind entity living in a world, and that projection of name and form (due to ignorance) is called Saguna Brahman (Brahman with objects or with arising phenomena appearing within it). It is Nirguna Brahman that is to be known, for this is what liberates, not saguna Brahman, which is Brahman plus Maya or Brahman plus ignorance. The latter, saguna Brahman, not only does it not liberate – it doesn’t even truly exist – this is the meaning of ajata vada.

This is explained many times in many places by Shankara in his commentaries, eg. in his commentaries on Brahma Sutras 3.2.14 and 3.2.15 he writes the following, which explains that the true Brahman is nirguna, without name and form, but Brahman is spoken of as saguna (with name and form) for the purposes of meditation and purification of the mind of lower level seekers:

3.2.14: For (Brahman) is merely devoid of form, on account of this being the main purport of scripture.

Shankara's commentary: Brahman, we must definitively assert, is devoid of all form, colour, and so on, and does not in any way possess form, and so on -- why? - 'On account of this being the main purport (of scripture).', 'It is neither coarse nor fine, neither short nor long' (Bṛ. Up. III, 8, 8); 'That which is without sound, without touch, without form, without decay' (Ka. Up. I, 3, 15); 'He who is called ether is the revealer of all forms and names. That within which forms and names are, that is Brahman' (Ch. Up. VIII, 14, 1); 'That heavenly person is without body, he is both without and within, not produced' (Mu. Up. II, 1, 2); 'That Brahman is without cause and without effect, without anything inside or outside, this Self is Brahman, omnipresent and omniscient' (Bṛ. Up. II, 5, 19). These and similar passages have for their purport the true nature of Brahman as non-connected with any world, and have not any other purport, as we have proved under I, 1, 4. On the ground of such passages we therefore must definitively conclude that Brahman is devoid of form. Those other passages, on the other hand, which refer to a Brahman qualified by form do not aim at setting forth the nature of Brahman, but rather at enjoining the worship of Brahman. As long as those latter texts do not contradict those of the former class, they are to be accepted as they stand; where, however, contradictions occur, the passages whose main subject is Brahman must be viewed as having greater force than those of the other kind. This is the reason for our deciding that although there are two different classes of scriptural texts, Brahman must be held to be altogether without form, not at the same time of an opposite nature. But what then is the position of those passages which refer to Brahman as possessing form? To this question the next Sūtra replies.


3.2.15: And as light (assumes forms as it were by its contact with things possessing form, so does Brahman;) since (the texts ascribing form to Brahman) are not devoid of meaning.

Shankara's commentary:
Just as the light of the sun or the moon after having passed through space enters into contact with a finger or some other limiting adjunct, and, according as the latter is straight or bent, itself becomes straight or bent as it were; so Brahman also assumes, as it were, the form of the earth and the other limiting adjuncts with which it enters into connexion. Hence there is no reason why certain texts should not teach, with a view to meditative worship, that Brahman has that and that form. We thus escape the conclusion that those Vedic passages which ascribe form to Brahman are devoid of sense; a conclusion altogether unacceptable since all parts of the Veda are equally authoritative, and hence must all be assumed to have a meaning. But does this not imply a contradiction of the tenet maintained above, viz. that Brahman does not possess double characteristics although it is connected with limiting adjuncts? By no means, we reply. What is merely due to a limiting adjunct cannot constitute an attribute of a substance, and the limiting adjuncts are, moreover, projected by Nescience only. That the primeval natural Nescience leaves room for all practical life and activity, whether ordinary or based on the Veda, we have explained more than once.

Tom: Shankara concludes, as he does throughout his many commentaries, that Brahman is to be truly known without form, but Brahman is said to be with form only for purposes of worship (ie. purification of the mind as opposed to self-realisation). He states that the teachings that state Brahman has form do have value in that regard only, but he concludes by reaffirming that name and form and 'practical life' (vyavaharika) only appear/arise due to nescience (ignorance) - ie. that in liberation or Brahma-Vidya, no names and forms arise, ie. nirguna Brahman is to be realised as ones self.

Humility, Vulnerability, Surrender and GRACE | Holy Bhagavan Sri Ramana, the Self Within! Bhakti, poetry

by Tom Das

(Please see if the following is helpful for you…)

Total and utter humility and total self-honesty are keys to liberation:
Realise how fragile you are, how little you really know, and how vulnerable you are to suffering.

Your beliefs, your ego, your defences, your conceit and your thought patterns convince you that you will be safe, that you can weather the storm…but admit the truth! That you are totally helpless and totally vulnerable to immense suffering and calamity. Admit it.

At any moment you are liable to crack open, break down and become a nervous wreck. Be truthful with yourself – admit it.

So…

Instead…

Be small, be vulnerable, be humble…

And then you can,
With tears of pining despair flowing,
Admit how much you want to be with HIM,
SAFE IN HIS ARMS:

Take refuge in HIM
– only in HIM are you safe:
Withdraw from the many objects into the SUBJECT,
HIM,
– ‘Out there it is unsafe’…

Therefore,
Timid, vulnerable, cowing,
Withdraw within,
Fearful and quivering,
TAKE REFUGE in HIS PRESENCE
Wherein he will cleanse you and MAKE YOU WHOLE.

Guru Bhavagan Sri Ramana has told us:

“O heart of mine, it is not wise to stay out.
Safe it is to stay within. Conceal yourself from maya
Which plans to draw you out to destroy you.
Stay within.”
(Guru Vachaka Kovai verse 187)

and

“For those who ever think of and cling to the Feet of
the Sadguru, who is the blazing flame of pure Jnana,
through the Grace obtained by such Guru-bhakti, their
minds will become clear and they will achieve Mei-
Jnana [True Knowledge].”
(Guru Vachaka Kovai verse 305)

Abide with HIM, the SELF within,
Immerse yourself in HIS GRACE,
Drown and anihilate your ego-self, the SOLUTE
in HIM, the DIVINE SOLVENT.

As Guru Bhavagan Sri Ramana has told us:

“Worship of [ie. surrender to] the Feet of the Guru,
with Guru-bhakti, is the real mantra, which will
destroy all the rising vasanas and bestow Jnana,

in which there will be no fear of Maya’s delusion.
Thus should you know.”
(Guru Vachaka Kovai verse 306)

You – the ego – who are the source of all suffering and pain,
DISSOLVE YOURSELF in HIM
So that ONLY HIS RADIANT PRESENCE remains

Abiding silently as SELF WITHIN
is to BE WITH HIM
-This is the highest WORSHIP OF HIM

As Bhagavan Sri Ramana says:

Extinguishing the triple fire,
The Guru’s Feet have given us shelter.
To abide there and control the mind
From craving for the world of sense
Is worship of those Flowery Feet.
(Guru Vachaka Kovai verse 318)

Do NOT allow the world to take you away from him
Do NOT allow the world to prevent you from BEING WITH HIM
Do NOT allow the world to prevent you from BEING IN HIS BLISSFULL EMBRACE
Do NOT allow the world to prevent you from WORSHIPPING HIM EVERY SPARE SECOND YOU HAVE

Do NOT allow your thoughts to take you away from HIM
Do NOT allow your thoughts to prevent you from WORSHIPPING HIM IN SILENT BLISS
Do NOT allow your thoughts to stop you WITHDRAWING INTO YOURSELF and taking HIM AS REFUGE

Tell yourself:
I will NOT allow the world to take me away from HIM
I will NOT allow my thoughts to take me away from HIM
I will NOT allow the mind and world to take me away from MY WORSHIP OF HIM,
MY BEAUTIFUL REFUGE WITHIN

BE WITH HIM
Be in his PRESESNCE
BE STILL
and
BE WITH HIM

DISSOLVE YOURSELF IN HIM
So ONLY HE,
The Residue,
Remains.

Tell yourself:
I will allow myself to DISSOLVE IN HIM until ONLY HE REMAINS

Holy Mount Arunachala,
The FORM OF THE SELF,
Holy BHAGAVAN SRI RAMANA,
The FORM OF THE SELF,

May I gaze upon thy form,
outwardly and inwardly,
May I take refuge in thee,
May I entrust myself to your BLISSFULL EMBRACE,
WITHIN
And become one with YOU
Destroying myself
Discovering myself
So that only YOU remain

As Maha Guru Sri Bhagavan says:

“By coming near to the Sadguru
and by depending completely upon His Grace,
with great Guru bhakti,
one will have no misery in this world

and will live like Indra.”
(Guru Vachaka Kovai verse 324)

!Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Arunachala Ramanaya Om!
!Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Arunachala Ramanaya Om!
!Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Arunachala Ramanaya Om!

Krishnamurti: meditation, Indian temples, Vedanta

154552

The following is an excerpt from ‘The Only Revolution’ by Jiddu Krishnamurti:

Meditation is not an escape from the world; it is not an isolating self-enclosing activity, but rather the comprehension of the world and its ways. The world has little to offer apart from food, clothes and shelter, and pleasure with its great sorrows.

Meditation is wandering away from this world; one has to be a total outsider. Then the world has a meaning, and the beauty of the heavens and the earth is constant. Then love is not pleasure. From this all action begins that is not the outcome of tension, contradiction, the search for self-fulfillment or the conceit of power.


The room overlooked a garden, and thirty or forty feet below was the wide, expansive river, sacred to some, but to others a beautiful stretch of water open to the skies and to the glory of the morning. You could always see the other bank with its village and spreading trees, and the newly planted winter wheat. From this room you could see the morning star, and the sun rising gently over the trees; and the river became the golden path for the sun.

At night the room was very dark and the wide window showed the whole southern sky, and into this room one night came – with a great deal of fluttering – a bird. Turning on the light and getting out of bed one saw it under the bed. It was an owl. It was about a foot-and-a-half high with extremely wide big eyes and a fearsome beak. We gazed at each other quite close, a few feet apart. It was frightened by the light and the closeness of a human being. We looked at each other without blinking for quite a while, and it never lost its height and its fierce dignity. You could see the cruel claws the light feathers and the wings tightly held against the body. One would have liked to touch it, stroke it, but it would not have allowed that. So presently the light was turned out and for some time there was quietness in the room. Soon there was a fluttering of the wings – you could feel the air against your face – and the owl had gone out of the window. It never came again.


It was a very old temple; they said it might be over three thousand years old, but you know how people exaggerate. It certainly was old; it had been a Buddhist temple and about seven centuries ago it became a Hindu temple and in place of the Buddha they had put a Hindu idol. It was very dark inside and it had a strange atmosphere. There were pillared halls, long corridors carved most beautifully, and there was the smell of bats and of incense.

The worshipers were straggling in, recently bathed, with folded hands, and they walked around these corridors, prostrating each time they passed the image, which was clothed in bright silks. A priest in the innermost shrine was chanting and it was nice to hear well-pronounced Sanskrit. He wasn’t in a hurry, and the words came out easily and gracefully from the depths of the temple. There were children there, old ladies, young men. The professional people had put away their European trousers and coats and put on dhotis, and with folded hands and bare shoulders they were, with great devotion, sitting or standing.

And there was a pool full of water – a sacred pool – with many steps leading down to it and pillars of carved rock around it. You came into the temple from the dusty road full of noise and bright, sharp sunshine, and in here it was very shady, dark and peaceful. There were no candles, no kneeling people about, but only those who made their pilgrimage around the shrine, silently moving their lips in some prayer.


A man came to see us that afternoon. He said he was a believer in Vedanta. He spoke English very well for he had been educated in one of the universities and had a bright, sharp intellect. He was a lawyer, earning a great deal of money, and his keen eyes looked at you speculatively, weighing, and somewhat anxious. He appeared to have read a great deal, including something of western theology. He was a middle-aged man, rather thin and tall, with the dignity of a lawyer who had won many cases.

He said: “I have heard you talk and what you are saying is pure Vedanta, brought up to date but of the ancient tradition.” We asked him what he meant by Vedanta. He replied: “Sir, we postulate that there is only Brahman who 5 creates the world and the illusion of it, and the Atman – which is in every human being – is of that Brahman. Man has to awaken from this everyday consciousness of plurality and the manifest world, much as he would awaken from a dream. Just as this dreamer creates the totality of his dream so the individual consciousness creates the totality of the manifest world and other people. You, sir, don’t say all this but surely you mean all this for you have been born and bred in this country and, though you have been abroad most of your life, you are part of this ancient tradition. India has produced you, whether you like it or not; you are the product of India and you have an Indian mind. Your gestures, your statue-like stillness when you talk, and your very looks are part of this ancient heritage. Your teaching is surely the continuation of what our ancients have taught since time immemorial.”

Let us brush aside whether the speaker is an Indian brought up in this tradition, conditioned in this culture, and whether he is the summation of this ancient teaching. First of all he is not an Indian, that is to say, he does not belong to this nation or to the community of Brahmins, though he was born in it. He denies the very tradition with which you invest him. He denies that his teaching is the continuity of the ancient teachings. He has not read any of the sacred books of India or of the West because they are unnecessary for a man who is aware of what is going on in the world – of the behaviour of human beings with their endless theories, with the accepted propaganda of two thousand or five thousand years which has become the tradition, the truth, the revelation.

To such a man who denies totally and completely the acceptance of the word, the symbol with its conditioning, to him truth is not a secondhand affair. If you had listened to him, sir, he has from the very beginning said that any acceptance of authority is the very denial of truth, and he has insisted that one must be outside all culture, tradition and social morality. If you had listened, then you would not say that he is an Indian or that he is continuing the ancient tradition in modern language. He totally denies the past, its teachers, its interpreters, its theories and its formulas.

Truth is never in the past. The truth of the past is the ashes of memory; memory is of time, and in the dead ashes of yesterday there is no truth. Truth is a living thing, not within the field of time.

So, having brushed all that aside, we can now take up the central issue of Brahman, which you postulate. Surely, sir, the very assertion is a theory invented by an imaginative mind – whether it be Shankara or the modern scholarly theologian. You can experience a theory and say that it is so, but that is like a man who has been brought up and conditioned in the Catholic world having visions of Christ. Obviously such visions are the projection of his own conditioning; and those who have been brought up in the tradition of Krishna have experiences and visions born of their culture. So experience does not prove a thing. To recognise the vision as Krishna or Christ is the outcome of conditioned knowledge; therefore it is not real at all but a fancy, a myth, strengthened through experience and utterly invalid. Why do you want a theory at all, and why do you postulate any belief? This constant assertion of belief is an indication of fear – fear of everyday life, fear of sorrow, fear of death and of the utter meaninglessness of life. Seeing all this you invent a theory and the more cunning and erudite the theory the more weight it has. And after two thousand or ten thousand years of propaganda that theory invariably and foolishly becomes “the truth”.

But if you do not postulate any dogma, then you are face to face with what actually is. The “what is”, is thought, pleasure, sorrow and the fear of death. When you understand the structure of your daily living – with its competition, greed, ambition and the search for power – then you will see not only the absurdity of theories, saviours and gurus, but you may find an ending to sorrow, an ending to the whole structure which thought has put together.

The penetration into and the understanding of this structure is meditation. Then you will see that the world is not an illusion but a terrible reality which man, in his relationship with his fellow man, has constructed. It is this which has to be understood and not your theories of Vedanta, with the rituals and all the paraphernalia of organized religion. 7

When man is free, without any motive of fear, of envy or of sorrow, then only is the mind naturally peaceful and still. Then it can see not only the truth in daily life from moment to moment but also go beyond all perception; and therefore there is the ending of the observer and the observed, and duality ceases.

But beyond all this, and not related to this struggle, this vanity and despair, there is – and this is not a theory – a stream that has no beginning and no end; a measureless movement that the mind can never capture.

When you hear this, sir, obviously you are going to make a theory of it, and if you like this new theory you will propagate it. But what you propagate is not the truth. The truth is only when you are free from the ache, anxiety and aggression which now fill your heart and mind. When you see all this and when you come upon that benediction called love, then you will know the truth of what is being said.