Questioner: How does this relate to the stream of Spirituality that says we are co-creators of reality & thus can manifest what we wish?
What of Anadi who says he has gone beyond traditional Realizers including Nisargadatta Maharaj (who has Realized the Absolute but only in one axis), & who criticizes the “no doership” of traditional spiritual teaching as only for the mediocre masses of spiritual aspirants & that co- creatorship goes beyond the “no doer” teaching…
Bentinho Massaro, who also claims to be in never before Realization territory, also says co-creation is the evolutionary next step beyond the mere non-resistant acceptance of what is…if Anadi & Bentinho are onto something in this, what of all the Buddhist monk humorous memes of “don’t worry, nothing is in your control”, will they become passé?
Tom: Hi _____, in response to your first question (re co-creators, etc), what I share and traditional spirituality is not in opposition to this. In fact this notion of co-creation and what is now often called the Law of Attraction is present throughout the Vedic tradition.
Regarding your second point, there have always been those who claim to be special and advanced in some way, and the scriptures comment on these stating this is a false view which is essentially egoic and about spiritual attainment for a separate individual (even if this is an expanded notion of individuality).
There is no enlightened individual – you could say there is only enlightenment, but no separate person who is enlightened. Enlightenment itself is an illusion, a part of the dream of an ego that is trying to find security and happiness.
To put it differently, you are already That, fully, or as the scriptures state ‘Tat Tvam Asi’.
The scriptures are powerful as they are not the work of any single individual, but their truth has been verified by many people over many centuries and in different places, rather like the body of scientific knowledge.
Another way of looking into this is not to listen to me or anyone else but to allow your mind to become quiet and still and ask this question to yourself and allow your inner wisdom to give you the answer. You will see, I hope, that emphasis on a separate (albeit expanded) notion of an enlightened individual with a special super-realisation is essentially egoic and based on greed, ego-inflation, a thirst for pleasure and thirst for experience and accumulation rather than the love, peace, humility, egolessness and simplicity that shine forth from genuine teachings.
You will see, I hope, that while this kind of spirituality seems attractive, it is still within the confines of Separation, Ego and Samsara. This means suffering is still very much present and it is this suffering that motivates the thirst for better more pleasurable experiences and further fuels the ego, perpetuating it. This thirst prevents The Simple and The Ever-Present Divine from being Realised, and so also prevents suffering from ending, and it is the end of suffering that we are really looking for, not special experiences or special powers.
One traditional text that in particular goes into this topic and illustrates with many wonderful stories how this is a wrong path is the wonderful Yoga Vasistha. The Buddhist scriptures also talk about this topic too – as I said, this kind of notion of a supremely special enlightened person with a focus on their special powers (co-creation, for example) is not new, and is often very attractive to naive spiritual seekers who are innocently and earnestly just trying to find a way to end their suffering.
I should add that I am not commenting directly on the teachers you mention as I am not very familiar with them, but I am just responding to what you describe in your question.
Questioner: take a look… Google Anadi & Betinho Massaro…these aren’t at all lightweights to be dismissed…your quick criticisms of them is a bit facile… I sure they’re very familiar with your views as they are classic ones,…these guys are way beyond the Realization space normally referred by yourself & others…
In fact Adi Da Samraj commented on the classical Realizers & while in appreciation of them, explains that they are 6th stage Realizers which formerly was felt to be the ultimate Realization but that the 7th level that he demonstrated wasn’t an additional stage as a progressive evolution but an entirely new stage beyond the traditional “path of return” spoken of in the classic literature…
I would like to see you learn more about & thus engage a more profound consideration of these heavyweights, Spiritual geniuses…to have the view that there is nowhere to go from the classic descriptions is untenable…even Ken Wilber, the “Einstein of comparative spirituality” declares that new spaces of Awakening are evolving & that classic Realizers were great but certain depths just weren’t available to them. Let’s get up on this!
Tom: I find what you write very interesting…however in general this kind of stuff doesn’t really interest me to be honest – not that you or anyone else shouldn’t be interested. I was primarily interested in ending suffering, nothing more, and whilst I have actually explored lots of the other ‘fancy stuff’ too, such as psychic powers/siddhis and co-creation, etc, I don’t tend to talk about it much as it’s actually not that relevant to ending suffering in my view, which is where the focus of my sharing lies, and what I think most people are actually looking for when they are looking for stage 8 or stage 9 or stage 100 of enlightenment, etc, etc.
You state that ‘these guys are way beyond the Realisation space…etc’, but I would posit that this is faith on your part – how do you know this is true? Perhaps the entire paradigm is baloney? Are you open to this also being wrong? And you refer to ‘heavyweights’ – again, that is your view, which is fine with me.
I’m sure there is much I do not know, like there are many languages that I do not know how to speak and many things I have not experienced, but that’s ok! I don’t need a better supercharged enlightenment, so to speak, and I would suggest that neither do you! Hope that makes sense, thanks.
Questioner: I’m certainly open to being wrong…after all isn’t it far more exciting to find the truth rather than the mediocre thrill of being right?
Tom: yes, same with me 🙂 Well do keep in touch, I’d be interested in hearing from you as to how your journey is going and happy to learn from you too 🙏🙏🙏