The excerpt below is taken from the text Aham Sphurana (see here to find out more about this text and download a copy for free), 20th July 1936:
Questioner: It happens to some that they pray – in all good faith – to God, yet their prayers are unequivocally repudiated. What is the reason?
Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi: Can you be trusted to know what is best for you?
Q.: I should hope so.
B.: That is your opinion.
Q.: What then is Sri Bhagawan’s opinion?
B.: ‘O Lord, thou hast searched me, and known me. Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought afar off. Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways.’
Q.: The implication being?
B.: He knows what is best for you; you do not. Therefore unconditionally surrender yourself to him and leave your fate in his hands. That is the only thing to be done. Prayer is merely a lower form of surrender. It is highly prone to failure, because if what is asked does not aid Realisation, it may not be granted, even though you may be thinking that what you are asking is going to [serve as an] aid in Realisation. Or, your karma may not permit the request to be granted.
Q.: Spiritually-inclined people pray for strength to inrovert the mind. Or, they pray for Self-Realisation. How can that be not an aid in Realisation?
B.: Because it posits the dangerous notion that there exists an [individual] “I” who craves for himself the state called Realisation. Such prayers are unnecessary. Maam Aekam Sharanam Vraja. ‘Only surrender to Me.’
Q.: Why does God allow karma to meddle with even the efforts of sincere aspirants who are trying to Realise?
B.: The arrangement of karma – [for karma itself is] unavoidable – is actually adroitly done in such a way as to give the sadhaka the maximum possible chance of completely cleansing the mind of all vritts. So, if you are destined to Realise in this lifetime, rest assured that your karma has been ingeniously arranged in such a manner as to inevitably take you to the Goal.
Q.: And if I am destined otherwise?
B.: Perhaps you would not be here today.
Q.: The same astute God who manipulates karma so carefully – why was he not careful enough to safeguard the Self from slipping into the bondage of ignorance?
B.: Does the Self complain of having thus fallen?
Q.: No. But I do.
B.: Are you apart from the Self?
Q.: The mahavakyas state that I am supposed to be one with Brahman.
B.: And your Experience is in Corroboration?
Q.: Alas! No. All I feel is the miserable ego.
B.: Yes. Misery is one with the ego. Kill the ego.
Q.: It seems to be an impossible accomplishment even for those with decades of systematic training in the spiritual field.
B.: There is no accomplishment possible. What is intimate and inherent cannot be accquired. The only thing to do is destroy the useless accreations that cause all the nuisance. We are not trying to attain anything. On the other hand, we are trying to give up everything.
Q.: Should I not try to attain Realisation of the Self?
B.: No. Give up everything. Only the Self remains.
Q.: It sounds simple enough. Yet, only one in a million men manage to reach this supreme state, according to Sri Krishna. Does it mean that, at any given point of time in the world, the number of Jnanis living should be a precise 0.0001% of the total population?
B.: [laughing] Possibly!
Q.: In my view even this seems an outlandish estimate. Are there now circa 269 Jnanis living in India, then, regard having been had to the numbers available by the 1931 Census?
B.: [somewhat mordaciously but without deviating from his good cheer] Why not? Do you suppose all Jnanis are unfortunate enough to be put in a cage like this, and put up for ‘public examination’? [in English:] Ladies and gentlemen, presenting… THE FREAK SHOW! Exhibit No. 1 – Sharji, the Venus of the Hottentots! Exhibit No. 2 – Elephant-man Merrick! Exhibit No. 3 – The ‘Bhagawan’, Ramana! அ என்ன பாழாகப் ேபான பகவானே◌ா [Tom: What a waste, O Lord] . No. Only those whose prarabdha is destined to be exceedingly miserable suffer like this! Sri Gandhiji has written, ‘The woes of Mahatmas are known to Mahatmas alone.’ [laughs heartily]
Q.: Other Jnanis, who, according to Bhagavan, enjoy a better prarabdha – they would be meditating in solitary places such as inaccesible jungles and caves, well away from habitable zones of humanity, I presume…
B.: You may presume whatever you like, no doubt…
Q.: So I am wrong?
B.: It all varies according to prarabdha. The Jnani is unfazed by what happens to the body. He has nothing to do with it. He has no localised consciousness functioning from within it. Killing it cannot harm him. Torturing it cannot affect him. He is absorbed by the Beyond, and quite lost there – for good. He may have 4 wives and 32 children. He may be running a busy household with dozens of mouths to feed. He may be employed on both day and night shifts of duty. Or, again, he may be sitting in an inaccesible cave with sensory organs in an inactive state, body rotting. It may be either way, but all this can be only from the point of view of the onlooker, since action is altogether alien to the Jnani; he himself knows nothing, sees nothing, does nothing. He has quite perished. Only a Jnani can tell who is a Jnani.
A person might look like a simpleton, yet he might know himself as the immortal Self. Another may display an unending spout of vedantic learning, yet his mind may not in the least have subsided. In this topsy-turvy world, which must needs always judge by its usual yardstick of ‘doing’, it is the latter who is generally extolled as the genuine case. The result? Misery for all involved. People cheat themselves into believing that they are in the vicinity of a great Mahatma. The pretender eventually himself foolishly comes to believe that he must indeed be a great Jnani, since so many people praise him day and night. So his ego becomes bloated; as a consequence he lands himself in all sorts of unpleasant situations. So, display of vedantic learning may cause a great very many problems for all involved. It is best to keep quiet.
Q.: Bhagavan said a Jnani may have numerous wives. Polygamy is a sin as per Hindu dharma. Can a Jnani sin, then? As far as my knowledge goes, the Manusmriti allows taking the next wife only if the existing wife or wives are mentally ill, infecundous, or unable to participate in rituals for the departed ancestors.
B.: What the Jnani does is always right. This does not mean that a man is morally excused in pretending to be a Jnani and then conveniently committing all sorts of crimes.
Q.: But how to tell who is a genuine Jnani?
B.: Only by yourself becoming lost in Jnana. However, there is one exceedingly rare exception. If a particular Jnani is destined to be your Jnanaguru, when you meet him there is an inexplicable mutual outpouring of ecstatic Love. The Love mentioned here is not consummated by any physical act. It is consummated only by surrendering to the object of such Love. The Jnani himself never loves or hates; only, when he meets one who is destined to be placed in his ultimate care, he directs his attention toward that person. It is not volitionary, but rather Automatic Divine Activity. There is nothing in him left to choose. Unto one who has the pakkuvam [Tom: ripeness], the Grace or Love begins to flow of its own accord. The Jnana-guru might not look at the mature devotee or exchange words with him, yet, one who is Ready feels the irresistible onslaught of inevitable rapid mental introversion in the form of blissful divine Love. This way you can tell that the person in whose presence you have such experience, is your Jnana-guru. Again, this might not happen in the case of all aspirants.
Q.: I have so far not had any such novel experiences with Bhagavan. Can I still Realise in this lifetime?
B.: All will turn out Right in the end.
Q.: Sometimes Bhagavan does not look at visitors. He does not respond to their queries. Does he refuse them his impartial Grace?
B.: Have you seen how they seperate chaff from the Grain here? They pour the seeds on the றம◌் , and then trenchantly shake it in a speedious upand-down motion. Can you guess the scientific principle underlying the act?
Q.: What is worthless and light in weight is blown away by the wind. What is precious and heavy is not affected by the movement. Yes, it is clear now.
B.: நல்லத◌ ! [Tom: good]
Q.: One imagines things and enjoys them by virtue of his strength of imagination. It is said that gross manifestations of such mental creations are possible for Brahma the Creator. Should the same power not be available with His creation, man?
B.: That is your opinion.
B.: J.K. says that man should try to find out the ‘I’. Then ‘I’ dissolves away, being only a bundle of circumstances. There is nothing assertible behind the ‘I’. His teaching seems to be very much like the Buddha’s.
B.: Yes. The truth is well beyond possibility of conceptual expression or explanation. It is pure Experience only, for there is no experiencer. When you finally do reach the Self, you will be shocked to discover that you have been foolishly searching frantically for something that was always right in front of your nose – no, even closer, for the nose and the object in front of it must be seen with the eye to ascertain their apparent existence, whereas the Self requires no perception to support its actual existence. The Self is pratyakshasakshathswayamprakasha-swaroopam. Everything shines in and by its light, but it knows nothing but itself. It shines by its own light alone. The lusturous beauty of it never fades. It is truly immutable, indestructible and imperishable. One who loses himself in it has no more cares or worries. It is the one true goal of man’s life, yet it is here and now. That is the great mystery.
Q.: After conversing with several devotees here, I have arrived at a rough observation that Sri Bhagavan gives spiritual advice which pertains to every conceivable genre, depending upon the inclination, maturity or palate of the aspirant in question. What, if any, is his nativistic teaching?
B.: [no response]
Q.: Is it Silence?
B.: Yes.
Q.: For those unfit to understand it?
B.: They are advised to keep quiet. [Summa iru.]
Q.: For those even this?
B.: The inquiry ‘Who-am-I?’ is suggested.
Q.: For those like me who lack the determination to practise this inquiry?
B.: Unconditional surrender.
Q.: To whom shall I surrender? To Sri Bhagawan or to my Guru Sri Chandrasekara Barathi of the Sringeri Mutt?
B.: Does surrender need a recepient? Simply surrender or let go of everything.
Q.: If I let go of everything, is Mukti assured unto me?
B.: To let go of everything is to let go of this question also.
Q.: So, expecting a reward for surrender is not appropriate?
B.: How can one who has surrendered expect anything? To surrender is to give up the spurious ‘you’ once and for all. When you are not there at all, where is the question of expecting or anticipating anything? Who would be there to do the expecting or anticipating? If there is still anyone left to engage in expecting or anticipating, no surrender has really taken place.
Q.: If I give up everything, what will happen to my body? How then will it be able to find food for itself, leave alone earn a living or maintain a family?
B.: Were you asked to neglect the body? You were asked to not deliberately take care of the body – that is all. How is it that you translate the directive, ‘Let go of everything.’ into ‘Neglect the body and its duties.’? The problem in its totality lies in the fact that you are labouring under the delusive impression that it is you as the ego who are maintaining your body, attending to your vocation, taking care of the household and everything else that it has fallen upon the body’s prarabdha to execute in this lifetime. So, when asked to give up everything, that is to say give up the ego, you give yourself to understand that your regular routine will come to a standstill.
No. Whether you are aware of it or not, whether you like the fact or not, the truth is that it is the Higher Power that does everything. We imagine ourselves to be the doer. When asked to give up the personal self, we imagine that the body’s actions also should come to cessation, because according to us, it is the personal self that is the cause and source of all action. No. It is a mistake. The ego merely fraudulently assumes responsibility for the actions of the body. Doerless doing or actorless action is not for the Jnani only; it is true – as an actual fact – in the case of all. In the case of the ajnani, something called “I” rises up to falsely claim responsibility for the body’s actions. This fictitious accreation is absent in the case of the Jnani. That is the only difference between them.
If you give up the ego or ‘Body-am-I.’ idea completely, some power effortlessly takes over the body and makes it run through its ordained course of prarabdha without the need for the least mental involvement or participation on your part. This is a matter for experience. To surrender is to totally let go of everything. People attached to concepts of the intellect or things of the world cannot possibly let go; vairagyam is necessary to let go. How to cultivate vairagyam? Proximity to the Guru.
Worldly attachment and the Guru pull the mind in opposite directions. If Love for the Guru is unequivocal and unconditional, His pull eventually wins. Again, how to cultivate this Love? By nature the minds of most men are occupied with the problems of the personal self. What vocation shall I pursue? Shall I study further or shall I opt for employment? Shall I marry the girl I like, or shall I marry the other one, the rich, obese character that I was introduced to by my parents? What measures shall I take to safeguard myself from penury in old age? How shall I ideally invest my wealth so that it stands me in good stead when I am no longer in a position to actively work to earn a living? Will my children take care of me in old age or will they abandon me and go their seperate ways? And so on and so forth.
This is how lifetime after lifetime is wasted. If you would only keep quiet without thinking these thoughts, providence would admirably take care of you; but no, you must have your ‘knowledgeable say’.
It so happens that in rare cases a man ceases to take thought of his personal self and wholeheartedly gives himself to an ideal of beauty, be it sport, literature, art, patriotism or anything else. The quantum of importance attributed to the personal self becomes negligible when the loftier pursuit occupies the whole of his attention. Thus he begins, for the first time, to experience a Love in which the personal self has no space. Such is the sweetness of this passionate Love that he yearns to experience the pinnacle thereof. The desire for this feeling of Love is not motivated by the objective of personally experiencing it. The Love for the higher ideal eventually comes to dominate and possess the soul with such complete fervour that his desire for such Love is not on account of any motive to personally experience it, but simply for the sake of such Love itself.
He does not think, I must experience more of this Love. He thinks, this Love must shine forth with the utmost possible intensity! Then, the ideal towards which Love hitherto had been directed merges imperceptibly into Love itself. Thus, the man is left with Love and only Love in his hands: Love without rhyme or reason.
Feeling it but unable to attain it, he becomes crazed with longing. It is at this stage that God or Guru appears to him as the manifestation of his Love: the manifestation may or may not be an anthropomorphic form; it may be an abstract image or ideal altogether deviod of form or even name. Eager to consummate his Love, he surrenders totally to the Guru and Realisation devours him by operation of the Guru’s benevolent grace.
Swami Vivekananda has said, ‘Take up one idea. Make that one idea your life – think of it, dream of it, live on that idea. Let the brain, muscles, nerves, every part of your body, be full of that idea, and just leave every other idea alone. This is the way to success.’.
So, volitionless Love, which, allowed to wax indefinitely, surely leads to Kaivalyam, may as well come to an inveterate materialist or atheist: belief or faith in God is not of any considerable importance, for it stops at the level of the intellect – it is Love that matters, uncaused, blind, mad, unconditional Love. In the work The Pilgrim’s Progress by John Bunyan, when Christian is about to drown in the dreaded river of Death, he has a vision of the Christ who reminds him of the verse: ‘When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee…’. The next moment the Christian finds steady ground to stand upon, and he manages to ford the remaining strech of the river safely.
Likewise, when Vasudeva was travelling to the house of Nandagopa and Yashodha, carrying the infant Krishna in his arms, the Yamuna river was in full spate, ready to devour him should he behave so unwisely as to step into it. Vasudeva thought of God and was immediately assisted by the giant 10-headed celestial serpent, Vasuki; thus he managed to ford the flooded river without incident.
Again, when Sri Abbanacharyal heard the news that his Guru, Swami Raghavendra, was about to enter into his brindavanam, he forthwith rushed to Mantralayam, but did not know what to do when he was faced with the flooded Tungabhadra. He gathered courage, closed his eyes, thought of his Guru, and threw himself into the raging deluge. He was not swept away by the river, but landed safely on the other bank.
How did all this become possible? Is not genuine Love for the Lord on the part of the devotee the reason? Thus, develop a deep obsessive infatuation with any particular ideal, and of itself that will plunge you into unfathomable Love; such Love invariably leads to Kaivalyam.
Q.: I am too weak to surrender, in the total sense of the term that I find Bhagawan suggesting. Also, I do not feel attracted to any one particular ideal or idea. What am I to do?
B.: It is holding on or doing anything that requires strength. If you feel you are weak, letting go of everything should be very easy, for that alone is non-doing.
Nevertheless, if total surrender is found too hard, practise surrender as a sadhana. This is called partial surrender. In course of time it leads to complete surrender.
Q.: Various descriptions of God are given by scriptures belonging to the different religions. Which is the description that tallies with Bhagavan’s teachings?
B.: Words cannot convey the Real. Yet, the closest is, Ehyeh asher ehyeh.[Tom: Hebrew, from Exodus 3:14 meaning ‘I am that I am’]
Q.: What is the difference between attempting on one’s own to Realise the Self and taking the help of a Guru?
B.: Suppose you want to go to America. Which is the sensible method? Taking a spade in hand and digging into the Earth, saying, ‘I am confident that I shall eventually reach America, which must be located on the exact other side of this very spot.’ or booking a place for yourself on the next outbound steamer?
The above excerpt is taken from Aham Sphurana, 3rd August 1936, see here for more information on this text.
The excerpt below is taken from the text Aham Sphurana (see here to find out more about this text and download a copy for free), 8th September, 1936:
Questioner: How is it that without a mind, Bhagavan is able to conduct rational converations with us and engage in many other tasks and functions besides?
Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi: Causality is unknown to the Jnani; the Emancipated-one’s actions therefore are always bereft of motive, purpose or volition. Bhagawan does not act at all. Action is alien to the Self; He is Life Itself, but yet absolutely motionless. He is simply AWARE. Other than fullness of Being-consciousness, which he abides as, he does not know anything.
The body may act in the world or remain idle; He cannot know. The faculties of sensory perception may remain inactive or function so as to take cognition of objects in the world; He cannot know. Being the Self, the Jnani is totally ignorant of anything and everything but the Self. He is referred to as the Witness-consciousness transcending space, time and causality; but that is exclusively from the point of view of objects with name, form and shape that take their origin in Him, subsist in Him, and dissolve back into Him, being merely appearances in Him, of Him and by reason of Him; He Himself has nothing to witness or see. The body might be working day and night like a steam-engine, but no karma can touch Him. His sensory-organs might be experiencing the greatest of pleasures, but He enjoys nothing. No matter what manner of work the body might be engaged in doing, He never does anything.
K.: Maharshi, please clarify this one thing for me: are you, or are you not, now talking to us?
B.: No. “I” am not talking to you.
K.: [reflectively] That’s right. Maharshi is not doing any talking. Maharshi simply IS.
Chadwick: I am sometimes given to wondering how a Jnani’s awareness of the Self could formerly have been obscured or obstructed by prior ignorance. Was there ever ignorance for a Jnani?
B.: No.
C.: Are Jnanis born Jnanis then?
B.: One’s idea that one took birth is merely mental information. When mind is annihilated, there is nothing to falsely inform the Jnani that he was born. Therefore, the Emancipated-one abides in perpetuity as the Unborn, to which time, space and any other transformation or possibility of measurement is wholly alien. We point to the body of the Emancipated-one and give it the name ‘Jnani’, thinking that such person must have awareness of the Self. But what is the fact? Is there anybody who can both stand apart from the Self and yet know the Self? The only way to know the Self is to BE It. So, the Jnani is verily Jnana and nothing but Jnana. There are no Jnanis. Jnana IS, Jnana alone IS, and Jnana alone could ever BE.
K.: [in an over-awed cadence of voice] Maharshi, you inspire me. I also want to become great like you; I want to attain your same greatness; I want to become as great as you. I consider it my life’s mission to emulate you. You are my idol, my super-hero. Please tell me what I should do to attain the same greatness that you have attained: you the incomparably great Bhagawan Ramana.
Chadwick: Impossible and inconceivable. How could anybody become our Bhagawan? He is God Absolute.
B.: [smiling] What is there in it? Only remain still [- i.e., summa iru].
K.: Maharshi, I would like to know how I shall get rid of all my sin.
B.: Original sin and original ignorance are all one and the same thing. To get rid of the one is to get rid of the other, and the other the one. Pursuing the investigation ‘Who am I?’ all the way to its successful culmination in Realisation, you will surely get rid of all your sin.
K.: Is the investigation ‘Who am I?’ easy or difficult?
B.: It is the easiest thing there can be. If attending to other things is readily possible for you, imagine how much more easier should be attending to yourself, and attending to yourself exclusively!
K.: Some say that it is exceedingly difficult.
B.: Pay no attention to their words. Do you trust Bhagawan or not?
K.: Implicitly and absolutely.
B.: Then never mind what others are saying. Regard only what is said here.
Bhagawan [tapping right cheek with palm multiple times rapidly and then pointing to own face] says vichara is easy. Will you practice it or not?
K.: [eyes swimming in barely suppressed tears, voice choked and face convulsed with emotion] Yes, Bhagawan.
The following is taken from the text Aham Sphurana, from the date 20th July 1936. See here to find out more about this text and also to download it for free:
Questioner: It is said that the legendary Sanjeevani herb is found somewhere in this Arunachala hill, by consuming which one attains to state of Immortality. Will Bhagavan please let me know where it is in the hill?
Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi: The hill itself bestows immortality.
Q.: How?
B.: Constant rememberance of Arunachala’s formsteadily but surely introverts the mind. Then the mind accquires the strength to plunge inward, or rather loses the strength to move outwards, towards thoughts, intellectual concepts or physical objects. Eventually it becomes still entirely; then the Arunachala within pulls it into itself and destroys it once and for all. This is the Sanjeevani shakti [Tom: shakti means ‘power’] of Arunachala about which you are asking.
[Tom’s comments: here we have Bhagavan explaining how remembrance of Arunachala introverts the mind, pulling it inwards away from both gross and subtle objects, until it becomes entirely still. Arunachala then does the final step of destroying the mind, the result of which is explored below]
Q.: Is it not a herb?
B.: I have said what I know.
Q.: Is the ultimate aim of spiritual practice, only destruction of mind?
B.: Yes.
Q.: One whose mind is dead would perhaps have life in the body, but he would be in a state of comatose senselessness, like a stony, frigid vegetable, unable to understand anything. Is that the perverse fate toward which all spiritual aspirants are gravitating?
B.: Absence of mind is pure Bliss. It is possible to function in the world normally, without mind.
Q.: Oh! How so?
B.: Some power takes over his body and animates it without his knowledge.
Q.: Is it God?
B.: Give it any name you like- God, Providence, Fate, Karma, etc.; the nomenclature matters not.
[Tom’s comments: Bhagavan first confirms that manonasa, or destruction of mind, is indeed the ultimate aim of spiritual practice, thus equating manonasa with both self-knowledge or liberation. Then he goes onto explain that the body can continue to function without the mind under another higher power. This is done without the Jnani’s knowledge or awareness. Of course, Bhagavan is describing this form the relative standpoint, or the standpoint of ignorance/maya. Below we will see a higher teaching given later]
Q.: Are names unimportant in the scheme of things, then? How to call someone if he has no name?
B.: The fact is that in order to escape its own destruction the mind creates a world of name and form over the pure vastu [Tom: vastu means reality] that is the Atman. It abhors chaos and randomness and prefers order and systematisation. It creates cause-consequence relationships and gives itself to understand ideas about its environment, which is actually merely its own projection. It tries to study the nature of its body’s physical surroundings and formulates laws by means of which it then expects those surroundings to function; deviations from existing laws give rise to the birth of new laws! Never once does it wonder, ‘What is my self?’; thinking to conquer its surroundings, it foolishly occupies itself with sensory perceptions, thoughts, and intellectual hypotheses. Thus it is born again and again and needlessly undergoes all sorts of tribulations. Then it asks, ‘Alas! Why has God done this to me?’. Who is to blame for our mistake, if not ourselves?
[Tom’s comments: here Bhagavan explains that the mind creates the universe of name and form and superimposes this onto the formless objectless reality that is Atman, one’s true self. It then projects cause and effect, or karma, and starts to study the environment around it, which is actually nothing but its own projection, never asking or enquiring ‘who am I?’. Below Bhagavan will again confirm, as he has done many times in his own writings, the nature of Jnana:]
Q.: The state without mind is called Jnana?
B.: Yes.
Q.: Then what or who is a Jnani?
B.: One who has mastered the art of not knowing anything and not doing anything.
Q.: I am unable to divine the explication underlying Bhagavan’s sibylline [Tom: mysterious] words.
B.: The Jnani’s senses are unhinged from the world about him. He is sunk in the Self and quite irrevocably lost there.
[Tom’s comments: Bhagavan is explaining that the Jnani does not truly perceive the world, something he only intimated above, and he will expand on this below]
Q.: How is he different from the man on the Clapham omnibus (சாதாரண மனிதன) [Tom: the Tamil phrase given here means ‘the common man/person’ which the translator has translated as ‘the man on the Clapham omnibus’ a phrase popular in the 1930s which also means ‘the common everyday person’; this latter phrase was very common amongst lawyers, and the person who was said to have recorded these dialogues, Sri Gajapathi Aiyyer, was also said to have been a lawyer]
B.: The standard of reality employed by the man on the Clapham omnibus is the jagrat [Tom: waking] state in the jagrat state, and so on. For the Jnani the standard of reality is Reality itself.
Q.: What is this Reality?
B.: Man’s true Self.
Q.: How am I to realise this true Self?
B.: Whose Self is it?
Q.: Mine… but really who am I?
B.: Yes. All other questions lead up only to this supreme question.
[Tom’s comments: all paths eventually lead to self-enquiry]
Q.: What is the answer to the question?
B.: The discovery that the personal self, including the one making the discovery, never existed.
Q.: What remains thereafterward?
B.: Only the Truth; it is the state where the world of word, name and form perishes and silence alone prevails.
[Tom: here Bhagavan has clearly stated that for the jnani there is no world or name and form, only the Self or Silence remaining. Now Bhagavan will explain the method of Self-Enquiry:]
Q.: How to communicate thoughts to others without the assistance of words?
B.: That is only necessary so long as duality still persists in the mind.
Q.: How to get abiding shanti [Tom: peace]?
B.: Shanti is the natural state. The mind obstructs one’s inherent peace. Atma-vichara is only in the mind; it does not affect the Self. Investigate the mind; it will disappear. There is no entity by name mind. Because of emergence of thoughts, we surmise the existence of something from which they must originate; this we term mind. When we probe inwards to see what it is, there is nothing to be found except the real Self. After the false mind has vanished, Peace will be found to be Eternal.
Q.: Then what is buddhi?
B.: The thinking or discriminating faculty. These are only names. Call it the ego, the mind or the intellect; it is all the same. Whose mind? Whose intellect? The ego’s. Is the ego real? No. We confound ourselves with the ego and call it intellect or mind. This is because of the evil influence of avidyamaya [Tom: avidya means ignorance, maya means the power which projects the illusion of the body, mind and world. Here Sri Ramana is equating or compositing the two], which has superimposed this ephemeral, illusory, and worthless world of name and form over the ever-existing substratum, which is verily pure Reality and the supreme Peace itself. How to escape from the illusion? By searching for the mind and finding it, including that very finder, to be non-existent, to have been always non-existent, and in fact impossible of existence.
Q.: Emerson says, “Soul answers soul by itself – not by description or words.”
B.: Quite so. However much you learn, there can never be an end to objective knowledge. You ignore the doubter but try to solve the doubts. On the other hand, search for the doubter, and the doubter and his doubts will both disappear.
Q.: Therefore, the question resolves itself into one of knowing the Self.
B.: Quite so.
Q.: How to know the Self?
B.: Enquire into what the self is. What you are now imagining to be your Self, is really either the mind, the intellect or the ‘I-thought’. [Tom: Bhagavan has already said above that these three are the one same thing] Other thoughts are able to arise only after the ‘I-thought’ rises. So, hold on to the I-thought without pause. Soon, you will find that all thoughts vanish leaving the Self alone as the residue.
Q.: The difficulty lies in reaching the Self.
B.: There is no reaching it at all because it is eternal, here and now. If the Self were to be gained anew, it would not be permanent. What is impermanent is not worth striving for.
Q.: How to obtain equilibrium of mind? What is the best way?
[Tom’s comments: We will see Bhagavan subtly rebuking the questioner here – Bhagavan has advised self-enquiry in which the mind is no more, and instead the questioner is asking ‘how to obtain equilibrium of the mind?’]
B.: Just now you were asked to investigate the mind. It is eliminated and the Real you remain over. Let your standpoint become that of Jnana and then the world will be found to be not apart from the Self. Drishtin jnanamayim kritva pashyaet Brahmamayam jagat [Tom: ‘Having made your outlook one of Jnana, one will see the world full of Brahman’ ~Tejobindu Upanishad 1.29; this was a phrase often repeated by Sri Ramana, eg. also see Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi, Talk 238, which is likely a record of the same conversation given here]. So, the question is one of outlook. The Atman pervades all. You have now lost hold of your Self and go on doubting about other things. Find your Real Self and all your problems and doubts will disappear.
Q.: But how to find this Real Self?
B.: Are there two ‘I’s in the same One? How do you know your own existence now? Do you see yourself with these eyes? Investigate into yourself. How does this question arise? Do I remain to ask it or not? Can I find my Self as in a mirror? Because your outlook has, owing to the poisonous delusion of ignorance, become outward-bent, it has lost sight of the actual Self and your vision is external. The Self is not to be found in external objects. Turn your gaze within and plunge within; you will be the Self.
Q.: It is said that the unknowable can be attained only by the grace of the unknowable.
B.: Yes. He helps you to Realise, if only you would forsake the external world of word, name and form. Such is His merciful Grace.
Q.: How to kill the mind, since the death of the mind is said to bring about Realisation easily?
B.: Will a thief betray himself? Will the mind find itself? The mind cannot kill the mind. You abandon what is real and are holding on to the mind which is unreal and also trying to find what this unreal mind is. Was there any mind in your sleep? No. It is now here. It is therefore impermanent. Can the mind be found by you? You are not the mind. You think you are the mind and therefore ask me how it is to be checked. If it is there it can be checked. But it does not exist at all. Understand this truth by search. Search for unreality is fruitless. Therefore seek the reality, i.e., the Self. That is the way to ruin the mind. There is only one thing Real, and that is Reality, which is the same as man’s true Self.
Q.: What is the nature of the true Self of man? Is it always happy?
B.: It alone is what IS: the ‘other elements’ are only appearances. Diversity is not the nature of the Real. We read the printed characters on the newspaper but ignore the paper which is the background. Similarly you are obsessed with the modifications of the mind and ignore the ever-present background of pure consciousness. Whose fault is it?
Q.: Is there a limit to the Real Self?
B.: What is the Real Self?
Q.: The Individual soul is the only self I know. According to Bhagavan it is unreal.
B.: What is the individual soul? What is the cosmic soul? Is there any difference between the two or are they identical? Any appearances are bound to disappear. Anything created will certainly be destroyed. The eternal is not born – consequently, nor can it die. We are now confounding appearances on Reality with Reality itself. Any appearance carries its own end in itself. Can there be anything that appears newly? If you cannot find the Self through the Jnana-vichara method, surrender to the substratum of appearances unreservedly; then, actual Reality will be left over as the residue.
Q.: What happens to a man after death?
B.: Engage yourself in the living present. The future will take care of itself. There is no need to worry about the future. The state before creation, the process of creation, etc., etc. are all dealt with in the scriptures in order that you may finally endeavour to know the present. Because you say you are born, therefore they say, yes, and add that God created you. But do you see God or anything else in your sleep? If God be real why does He not shine forth in your sleep also? You are always – now the same as you were in sleep.
You are not different from the one in sleep. Thus, why should there be any difference in the feelings or experiences governing the two states? Did you ask, while asleep, the question regarding your birth? Did you ask then, where do I go after death? Why think of all this now in the wakeful state? Let what is born think of its birth, the remedy, the cause and the ultimate results. What is birth? Is it of the ‘I-thought’ or of the body? Is ‘I’ separate from the body or identical with it? How did this ‘I-thought’ arise? Is the ‘I-thought’ your nature? If not, what is your Real nature?
Q.: To whom to ask these questions?
B.: Exactly – that is it. There is no end to it all.
Q.: Are we then to merely keep quiet?
B.: Doubts cease when your apparent ignorance is transcended.
Q.: How did this ignorance originally arise?
B.: Is ignorance asking you, ‘Why have I arisen?’. It is you who are asking the question. So, find out who you are. Then other things will take care of themselves.
Q.: The vichara again! Why should I engage in this Atma-vichara?
B.: Because if Atma-vichara is not pursued, loka-vichara creeps in [Tom: Loka means world, vichara means enquiry, Atma means self]. Engage in Self-investigation; thereby the non-self disappears. The true Self is left over. This is self-investigation of the Self. The one word ‘தான்’ [Tom: ‘Thaan’ or ‘Self’ or ‘oneself’] is equivalent to the mind, body, man, individual, the Supreme and all else.
I have decided to add the book Aham Sphurana to the recommended reading list. Please see the list here for more information about this decision, which may be controversial for some. For clarity, the version I am recommending is the original unabridged version and not the edited selections published by others which may contain distortions to the teachings. See here to download the text for free.
“The scriptures talk about prarabdha karma only for the purpose of easy understanding of the ignorant“. ~Sri Shankara, Aparokshanubhuti verse 97
“The statement that the jnani retains prarabdha while free from sanchita and agami is only a formal answer to the questions of the ignorant. Of several wives none escapes widowhood when the husband dies; even so, when the doer goes, all three karmas vanish.“ ~ Supplement to the 40 verses on reality, written by Sri Ramana Maharshi
462-3:… it is to convince those fools who entertain a doubt like this, that the Shrutis, from a relative standpoint, hypothesise Prarabdha karma [as existingfor the Jnani] ~Sri Shankara, Vivekachudamani
Traditionally it is said that when one attains liberation, all of that person’s karma is wiped out and so they will not be born again into a future rebirth, thus ending the cycle of samsara (the cycle of birth, experience, suffering, death and rebirth). Here the word karma, which literally means action or doing, refers to the momentum of cause and effect that causes things to happen in our life and in the future, including in future lives (for those who believe in reincarnation).
The question naturally arises, if there is no karma for the jnani (knower of truth or self, ie. one who has realised the Self and thereby attained liberation), how does their body continue to function? And surely there is some karma for the Jnani, for we see some Jnanis experience both good and bad fortunes. Why is this?
For a lower grade of seeker, the explanation is given that while all karmas* are destroyed for the jnani, prarabdha karma* remains. This prarabdha karma is the portion of karma needed to live out the current body’s life, and accounts for the good and bad things that the jnani experiences after self-realisation.
(*In Vedic traditions there are three karmas for the body: Sanchitakarma (the total storehouse of past actions; sanchita means ‘heaped together’ or ‘collected together’), Prarabdhakarma (the specific portion of Sanchita karma currently being experienced by this body in this life; prarabdha means ‘that which has begun’ or ‘that which has already commenced’, more commonly translated as ‘destiny’), and Agami karma (new actions being currently created now that shape your future; agami means ‘that which is coming’ or ‘that which is approaching’ or ‘future’)
The lower grade seeker is naturally satisfied with this answer and (perhaps because they are a lower grade seeker, or perhaps because they have faith in the teacher or teaching), they ask no further questions. They do not ask, how does this come about? How does some principle know to end sanchita and agami karma but continue prarabdha karma? And what is the mechanism by which this occurs? What principle governs this occurrence? Why does this prarabdha continue at all? Isn’t this dualistic, that some karmas are destroyed whilst others are not? And so on. The lower grade seeker simply accepts the teachings, as it gives their mind an explanation which makes sense to them, and the simple mind is often satisfied by mere explanations.
However, to earnest seekers who truly thirst for liberation, the great sages such as Sri Ramana Maharshi and Sri Shankara have said that this is just an explanation for the ignorant who consider the Jnani to be a body-mind entity, and that in truth, there is also no Prarabdha for the Jnani, for the Jnani has no body and sees no body.
We will look at some quotes from both Sri Ramana Maharshi and Sri Shankara that explain this, and also some commentary from Swami Chinmayananda that states the same, as well as teachings from Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj on this topic too.
We will see that the teaching there is no prarabdha karma for the Jnani and that there is no world for the jnani is in fact the traditional teaching of Advaita Vedanta that has been taught for centuries as per Shankara’s writings, and as per the writings of various others down the ages, and that it is only relatively recently, perhaps in the last 40-50 years or so, that a newer intellectualised form of Vedanta (that claims to be Traditional Advaita) has become more popular – Neo-Advaita it could be called.
Questioner: I have a question, if Ajnanam (ignorance) is removed* that means the whole source of Samsara is removed. In such a case why should the Jnani (realised sage) even have Prarabdha Karma*. That also should not be present right?
Tom: In Truth, there is not even any such thing as a Jnani (meaning a person or body-mind that is ‘realised’) – there is only That Objectless Subject-Self-Brahman. So there is no karma whatsoever for ‘a Jnani’ (a Jnani here meaning the Self). The self has no duality, and no karma. Karma is born of ignorance and is maya, unreal. They are one and the same – karma and ignorance – or one comes from the other. This is also what is taught in the Upanishads (eg. Adhyatma Upanishad) and by Shankara, both in his commentaries and in texts such as Vivekachudamani.
*Removal of ignorance is the same as Self-Realisation, so say the Upanishads, so says Shankara.
**Prarabdha Karma is the portion of karma that, according to the Vedas, gives rise to the body in the present birth and will play out and determine the specifics of the present life. A simple translation could be ‘destiny’ or ‘what is destined for this life’. The idea of this question is that, for example, if you have ‘been bad’ in the past and have accumulated negative karma as a result, even though you have realised the Self, this negative karma may continue and cause suffering for you even after Self-Realisation. The Upanishads are clear that all karmas and all suffering end upon Self-Realisation, so one need not even fear the negative results of one’s past actions if one realises the Self.
We can see that even the notion of a body-mind entity, such as a ‘great sage’, is itself a fiction, for there is only the bodiless self, in which no body, mind or world ever appeared or ever could appear. All appearances are only due to ignorance, also known as ego or mind. In self-realisation, ignorance was seen to never have actually ever occurred, and the subsequent projection of the body mind and world was similarly never seen to have occurred. This is the doctrine of ajata vada, or the doctrine of no-creation, meaning nothing ever happened, or appeared to happen.
For the mind, this teaching makes no sense, for there is no worldly analogy that can explain non-duality or the Self, but this is what the higher teachings in the scriptures try to convey.
Sri Ramana Maharshi
Sri Ramana himself writes, in the supplement to 40 verses on reality the following:
The statement that the jnani retains prarabdha while free from sanchita and agami is only a formal answer to the questions of the ignorant. Of several wives none escapes widowhood when the husband dies; even so, when the doer goes, all three karmas vanish.
~ Supplement to the 40 verses on reality, written by Sri Ramana Maharshi
We can clearly see that Sri Ramana is stating that all three karmas go for the jnani, and that the idea that prarabdha continues is a ‘formal answer to questions of the ignorant’, meaning it is a lower teaching for the masses who are either not genuinely seeking liberation, or in whom an intense conscious desire for liberation has not yet arisen.
But doesn’t the jnani see the world, but see it as illusion?
However some argue that the jnani still perceives the body, mind and world, but the prarabdha karma does not affect them, and this is what is meant by ‘there is no prarabdha for the sage’. Or they say that the body mind and world, together with its prarabdha, continue, but the Jnani sees them as being illusory. Sri Ramana writes the following to discount this view. Later we will also see that Sri Shankara makes the same point:
The Self-Realised Sage knows not whether the transient body comes and stays, or dies and leaves, even as a senseless drunkard knows not what happens to his clothes.
~ Guru Vachaka Kovai, Sri Bhagavan 24 (a verse written by Sri Ramana Maharshi)
We can see here that Sri Ramana is refuting the idea that the jnani even knows what is happening to the body.
Are we not just confusing levels here?
Some further argue that whilst on the absolute level (paramarthika or the level of the highest truth) the body mind and world do not exist, but relatively speaking (vyavaharika, or on the transactional relative level) they, together with prarabdha karma, continue.
This would mean there are 2 levels of the self and that the Self is non-dualistic. Sri Ramana clears up all of these in his teachings however, stating that for the jnani, there is only the one level – the truth ie. paramarthika – vyvaharika only being apparently existent for the ajnani.
The following verses are from Sri Ramana’s teachings in the text Guru Vachaka Kovai:
21. There is no mind, nor body, nor world, nor any one called a soul; the One pure Reality alone exists, without a second, unborn and unchanging, abiding in utter Peace.
313. As one that is profoundly alseep in a carriage in unaware of the varying states of the carriage – (its running, stoppages and unyoking of horses [Tom: – ie. the 3 states of waking, dream and deep sleep]) – so the one in the Transcendental State is unaware of the varying states of the body.
We see the same teachings of Sri Ramana recorded in the text Paravidyopanishad:
39. Unless and until the mind becomes utterly extinct, these three states will continue to prevail. When the mind becomes extinguished the supreme state is won, wherein this world once and for all ceases to appear.
The state of liberation is often called ‘sahaja samadhi’. Sahaja means natural or easy, so this refers to the effortless state of self-realisation. In Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi, talk 82, Sri Ramana is recorded as saying the following:
Just as a passenger when asleep in a carriage is unaware of the motion, the halting or the unharnessing of the horses, so also a Jnani in sahaja samadhi is unaware of the happenings, waking, dream and deep sleep.
…In sahaja samadhi the activities, vital and mental, and the three states are destroyed, never to reappear. However, others notice the Jnani active e.g., eating, talking, moving etc. He is not himself aware of these activities, whereas others are aware of his activities. They pertain to his body and not to his Real Self, swarupa. For himself, he is like the sleeping passenger – or like a child interrupted from sound sleep and fed, being unaware of it
Sri Ramana himself also writes in ‘Who Am I?’:
Just as the knowledge of the rope, which is the base, will not be obtained unless the knowledge of the snake, the superimposition, goes, so the realization of Self, which is the base, will not be obtained unless the perception of the world which is a superimposition, ceases.
And also from Sri Ramana’s ‘Who Am I?’:
Therefore, when the world appears, Self will not appear; and when Self appears, the world will not appear
But doesn’t Sri Ramana Maharshi say that the jnani is in the state of Sahaja Samadhi, the natural state of liberation in which the sage is naturally and effortlessly unattached to the phenomenal world of objects (‘sahaja’ means ‘natural’ or ‘easy’)? Yes, he does, but this too is a lower teaching. See what he says in his higher teachings:
‘So also a Jnani in sahaja samadhi is unaware of the happenings, waking, dream and deep sleep…In sahaja samadhi the activities, vital and mental, and the three states are destroyed, never to reappear.
However, others notice the Jnani active e.g., eating, talking, moving etc. He is not himself aware of these activities, whereas others are aware of his activities. They pertain to his body and not to his Real Self, swarupa.For himself, he is like the sleeping passenger – or like a child interrupted from sound sleep and fed, being unaware of it. The child says the next day that he did not take milk at all and that he went to sleep without it. Even when reminded he cannot be convinced. So also in sahaja samadhi.’
~ Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi, Talk 82
Nirvikalpa Samadhi
What is called Sahaja Samadhi, the natural state of the jnani, is also called Sahaja Nirvikalpa Samadhi or just Nirvikalpa Samadhi. These are synonyms for self-knowledge or self-realisation or liberation. Sri Ramana Maharshi wrote in his translation of the classical advaita text Drig Drishya Viveka:
‘being completely absorbed in the Bliss experienced by the realization of the Self is nirvikalpa samadhi‘
Sri Ramana Maharshi wrote a summary of Shankara’s teachings in an essay he wrote which you can find here, in which he wrote the following:
…the natural and changeless state of Nirvikalpa samadhi is produced by unswerving vigilant concentration on the Self, ceaseless like the unbroken flow of oil. This readily and spontaneously yields that direct, immediate, unobstructed, and Universal perception of Brahman, which is at once knowledge and experience and which transcends time and space.This perception is Self-realisation. Achieving It cuts the knot of the Heart. The false delusions of ignorance, the vicious and age-long tendencies of the mind which constitute this knot are destroyed. All doubts are dispelled and the bondage of karma is severed.
But don’t we see the Jnani/Sage eating, drinking, talking, walking, etc…?
Yes, the ignorant will see the sage as a body-mind entity (whereas the Sage is really just the objectless worldless Self, Pure consciousness), and this ‘sage’ or ‘jnani’ will continue to act in the world as before, participate in the world and ‘see’ the world, but this is the exerience of the ignorant, not the direct experience of the realised Jnani (who is not truly a body-mind entity at all, being just Pure Objectless Consciousness or Spirit, also known as Nirguna Brahman).
See here and here for more on this teaching. Also see the section from Nisargadatta Maharaj below as he explains this too.
Sri Shankara
Now let us see what Sri Shankara says about this – of course we will see that he says exactly the same. Let us first see what he says about prarabdha karma and the jnani. The following verses are taken from his text Aparokshanubhuti, which means ‘unmediated (or direct) experience’. This is an extremely popular and influential traditional Advaita Vedanta text, written by Sri Shankara, that has been used as a manual for teaching Vedanta for over 1400 years, and is a well established part of the Advaita Vedanta tradition:
90. Even when self-knowledge has arisen, prarabdha karma does not cease – so it is said in the scriptures – this [claim] is now being refuted
Shankara first acknowledges this teaching that prarabdha karma continues for the jnani is given in the scriptures. He will now, in the next few verses, refute this teaching, the implication being that it is a lower teaching for the ignorant one, something that is explicitly stated later on in verse 97.
91. Upon the arising of true self-knowledge, prarabdha karma does not exist at all, because the body and all associated things [ie. all other phenomena] do not exist, just as a dream upon waking [no longer appears or exists]
We can see that Shankara is explaining that as the body and all associated things do not exist in genuine self-realisation, how can prarabdha karma exist? Prarabdha needs a body, and if there is no body or any other phenomena, how can there be prarabdha? He then gives the similie of a dream disappearing upon waking, which means that just as a dream ends upon waking, the body-mind-world end upon waking up to Self-Realisation.
In verses 92 and 93 Shankara gives further reasons or arguments why there is no prarabdha karma for the jnani:
92. Karma performed in a previous birth is called prarabdha, but since there is no other birth for the [self-realised] person, that prarabdha does not exist at any time.
Shankara’s argument here is that prarabdha karma comes from previous births. However, for a self-realised person, there have never been any births, ie. ajata (which means no birth or no creation), so how can there be prarabdha karma at any time for a jnani? In fact, there is no time or space for the jnani at all, so how can there be any karma for karma depends on space and time?
93. Just as the dream-body is a superimposition [false projection or illusion], so indeed is this body [physical body in the waking state] too. For something that is superimposed [ie. Illusory or unreal], how can there be birth? And in the absence of birth, how can that [prarabdha karma] exist?
Shankara is here stating in verse 93 of Aparokshanubhuti that the body in the waking state is an illusory projection or superimposition (adhyasa). This implication is that the body is ultimately unreal, having never really been born, and so there can be no prarabdha karma for the unreal.
Now we should be careful here as others interpret this verse slightly differently. They say that this verse merely states that the body continues to appear like a dream for the jnani, but the jnani knows the body, which continues to appear, to be an unreal superimposition on the self. They go on to say that ‘no prarabdha karma’ simply means that the jnani is unaffected by the prarabdha karma which continues to appear but just doesn’t touch the jnani or self. This is clearly a wrong interpretation, for it discounts the previous verse which states the world disappear for the jnani ‘like a dream upon waking’, and the next few verses make it very clear what Shankara’s intended meaning is.
As always, it is important not to cherry pick selected verses but to read the verses in context to understand their true meaning. Let us see the next few verses that make the teaching and intended meaning very clear:
94. Vedanta declares ignorance to be the material cause of the phenomenal world, just as clay is [the material cause] of a pot. When that ignorance is destroyed, where can the world be?
Shankara here is definitively and clearly stating, in classical rhetorical language, that (1) ignorance is the material cause of the world and (2) therefore when ignorance goes, so does the world. In the next two verses Shankara will emphasise this very point so that the meaning cannot be misunderstood:
95. Just as one, by ignoring the rope, one sees a snake due to delusion [ignorance], so too, not knowing the truth, the deluded [ignorant] one perceives the world.
Here we have another definitive statement from Shankara that the world is seen due to delusion, which is a synonym for ignorance. Note that the rope is equated with the worldless self, and the rope is equated with the world, projected and perceived through ignorance.
Doesn’t the jnani still perceive the world, but they perceive the world as self?
Some say that this means that the ignorant one perceives the world as world, whereas the jnani perceives the world as self. However it should be clear that this is not the intended meaning of these verses. If it were, Shankara would clearly say so, but instead he makes it clear that the metaphor to be used here is that of the rope and the snake, and that just as the snake disappears on apprehension of the rope, the world disappears (or, more accurately, the world was seen to have never appeared in the first place); see here in the next verse, verse 96:
96. When the rope is correctly known as the rope, the delusion of the snake does not remain; likewise, when the substratum [ie. self] is known, the phenomenal world vanishes into nothingness
Here we have Shankara stating what he has already stated rhetorically in verse 94.
Now Shankara will explain that the teaching that prarabdha karma continues for the Jnani is merely a lower teaching for the ignorant mind to more easily understand the jnani:
97. Since the body itself belongs to the phenomenal world [which disappears upon self-knowledge], how can prarabdha persist [with self-realisation]? Sruti [the revealed scriptures, ie. Vedas and Upanishads] talks about prarabdha only for the purpose of easy understanding of the ignorant.
Shankara repeatedly states that the relative world only appears due to ignorance
All this world is unreal and proceeds from ignorance, because it is seen only by one afflicted by ignorance ~Sri Shankara, Upadesa Sahasri 17.20
Having thus effaced the triad consisting of dreamless sleep, dream and waking experience, one crosses over the great sea of ignorance. For he is then established in his own Self, void of all attributes of the empirical world, pure, enlightened, and by his very nature liberated. ~Sri Shankara, Upadesa Sahasri 17.58
Because I am without an eye, I have no sight*. As I have no ear either, how could I have hearing*? As I have no voice I can have no speech. As I have no mind, how could I have thought? There cannot be action on the part of that which does not have life force (prana). There cannot be knowership on the part of that which has no mind. Neither can there be knowledge or ignorance on the part of me who am the Light of Pure Consciousness ~Sri Shankara, Upadesa Sahasri 13.1, 13.2
*(Shankara is quoting from Brihadaranyaka Upanishad 3.8.8)
Just as a dream is [apparently] real and valid until one awakens from it, so are the experiences of the waking state, such as identity with the body and the authoritativeness of perception and the other means of knowledge, real and valid until knowledge of the Self ~Sri Shankara, Upadesa Sahasri 11.5
Of me who am ever-liberated, pure, rock-firm and changeless, not subject to modification, immortal, indestructible and so without a body, there is no hunger or thirst or grief or delusion or old age or death. For I am bodiless… ~Sri Shankara, Upadesa Sahasri 13.3-13.4
Shankara’s Vivekachudamani
We also see this same teaching in Shankara’s Vivekachudamani, another extremely important text in Traditional Advaita Vedanta. It is arguably the single most important text historically and traditionally speaking in terms of its influence on Advaita Vedanta tradition for the last 1400 years, and it has been used as a manual of Advaita by countless sages who have also commended its teachings. Sri Ramana translated the entire work (click on link to view the translation) and also wrote an introduction to it which summarises the Advaita Vedanta teachings of Shankara, which you can view here:
460. Prarabdha work can be maintained only so long as one lives identified with the body. But no one admits that the man of realisation ever identifies himself with the body. Hence Prarabdha work should be rejected in his case.
And again, Shankara in his text Vivekachudamani maintains that the notion that the notion of prarabda karma is only taught in the scriptures to ‘convince fools’ who, erroneously thinking the Jnani to be a body-mind entity, ask questions like ‘how does the body of the jnani live?’:
462-3. “If the effects of ignorance are destroyed with their root by knowledge, then how does the body live?” – it is to convince those fools who entertain a doubt like this, that the Shrutis, from a relative standpoint, hypothesise Prarabdha karma, but not for proving the reality of the body etc., of the man of realisation.
ie. Shankara is stating the notion of prarabdha karma is only to satisfy the minds of ‘fools’ and not to show that the jnani actually has a body or sees a world.
This verse is actually very telling, as Shankara’s first point is that ‘the effects of ignorance are destroyed with their root by knowledge’. The effects of ignorance refer to all arising phenomena, including the body and mind and world, also known as duality. The next logical question for a ‘fool’ is ‘how therefore does the body live if there is no perception of a body or a world?’. It is a question for a ‘fool’ as one with a sharper intellect will realise that the teaching is saying that the body and mind are mere projections of ignorance and were never real or existent in the first instance, so this is not something that needs to be worried about or explained.
The ‘fool’, however, attached to the notion that bodies and minds and the world are all real and existent, not realising the import of the teaching, asks the question ‘how does the body live?’.
Now, if Shankara meant by’ the effects of ignorance are destroyed’ that the perception of the world continues for the jnani but the jnani is no longer attached to these perceptions, then the question ‘how does the body live’ does not arise, for the body would just carry on living according to its prarabdha.
So here in this verse, if we analyse it properly, we can see, yet again, what Shankara’s intended teaching is and what it is not.
No duality in non-duality
After these above verses, the text Vivekachudamani by Sri Shankara then goes on to say that there is only the non-dual Brahman, in which there is no duality whatsoever. Repetition is used to drum this point home, ensuring the reader understands there is no change, no activity (karma), it is homogenous (with no variation), it has no parts or aspects to it, etc, etc:
464. There is only Brahman, the One without a second, infinite, without beginning or end, transcendent and changeless; there is no duality whatsoever in It.
465. There is only Brahman, the One without a second, the Essence of Existence, Knowledge and Eternal Bliss, and devoid of activity; there is no duality whatsoever in It.
466. There is only Brahman, the One without a second, which is within all, homogeneous, infinite, endless, and all-pervading; there is no duality whatsoever in It.
467. There is only Brahman, the One without a second, which is neither to be shunned nor taken up nor accepted, and which is without any support, there is no duality whatsoever in It.
468. There is only Brahman, the One without a second, beyond attributes, without parts, subtle, absolute and taintless; there is no duality whatsoever in It.
469. There is only Brahman, the One without a second, whose real nature is incomprehensible, and which is beyond the range of mind and speech; there is no duality whatsoever in It.
470. There is only Brahman, the One without a second, the Reality, the One without a second, the Reality, effulgent, self-existent, pure, intelligent, and unlike anything finite; there is no duality whatsoever in It.
The ego-mind projects the entire world
In Vivekachudamani, Shankara explains that the entire phenomenal world is a projection of the ego-mind or ignorance:
169. There is no Ignorance (Avidya) outside the mind. The mind alone is Avidya (ignorance), the cause of the bondage of transmigration. When that is destroyed, all else is destroyed, and when it is manifested, everything else is manifested.
170. In dreams, when there is no actual contact with the external world, the mind alone creates the whole universe consisting of the experiencer etc. Similarly in the waking state also; there is no difference. Therefore all this (phenomenal universe) is the projection of the mind.
180. Hence sages who have fathomed its secret have designated the mind as Avidya or ignorance, by which alone the universe is moved to and fro, like masses of clouds by the wind.
Some modern readers may think that Shankara is merely speaking of the conceptual world, our ideas or the labelling of concepts and objects, but if you read his writings it becomes clear Shankara is actually stating the the mind literally creates the world. It would take too long to go into this here, but instead you can see this this article herewhere this is explained in depth – more quotes are given and you will also see teachings from Sri Gaudapada and Sri Suresvara (Shankara’s student) and otheres on this same topic
Swami Chinmayananda
In his commentary on the verse 97 of Shankara’s Aparokshanubhuti, Swami Chinmayananada writes the following:
The BMI, PFT and the OET* together constitute the prapanca [Tom: prapanca, this is the world often used in the scriptures to denote ‘the world’], the ever changing perishable phenomenal world. So where the Reality of the Atman is apprehended, how can the body which is a part of the phenomenal world come to exist? I the dusk you mistook the rope to be the snake and the post for the ghost. When you switch on the torch and then realise the post will you still say that you are seeing the smile of the welcoming ghost in the post, even though you accept that the ghost has disappeared? With the disappearance of the ghost, everything connected with the ghost totally completely comes to an end.
Similarly, as long as I was identifying myself with my body, mind and intellect I recognised my prarabdha and submitted to it. When I realise the Truth, ignorance gets ended and with it the BMI [body-mind-intellect] cease to exist and so how can there be any prarabdha?If this be the case why did the sastra say that prarabdha exists even for a Realised Soul? It is only for the popular understanding of the ignorant who have not got the scientific understanding of Vedanta, at the earlier stage of understanding, that the sastras introduce this in this way. But when the understanding that Truth alone remains, dawns, he will himself come to understand that there can be no prarabdha, for prarabdha is only at the plane of plurality in a concept of time. When a student does not know what a chair is, the teacher draws the picture of a chair and then explains its use and nature. It is only in the initial stages that he draws the picture of the chair and then explains its use to the understanding of the lesser intellects. Later when he refers to the chair he need not draw the picture. So too to the lesser intellects when the sastras explain the nature of realisation with reference to the actions they say there is prarabdha for the Man of Realisation. But, when once the student evolves and gains subtlety of understanding, the teacher points out the Truth in which there is admixture of no otherness.
*Swami Chinmayananda often used these abbreviations: BMI = body-mind-intellect, ie. what I call the body-mind; PFT = perceiver, feeler, thinger, ie. what I call the mind or ego, or what the scriptures call the ego or subtle body; OET = objects, emotions and thoughts, ie. what broadly corresponds to the notion of the world of gross and subtle objects.
I won’t repeat here, but is clear that Swami Chinmayananda is interpreting the text in the same way as I have elucidated above, which in turn is in line with Shankara’s own writings and that of Sri Ramana’s quoted above too.
The next 2 verses of Aparokshanubhuti, verses 98 and 99, continue along the same lines, again arguing against the existence of prarabdha karma for the jnani.
We see the same teaching in Swami Chinmayananda’s commentary on Shankara’s masterpiece Vivekachudamani. Swami Chinmayananda writes in his commentary on Vivekachanudamani verse 462, writing of the Jnani:
‘… For he, in his absolute state of realisation, does not perceive or recognise the existence of the physical body…Summing up his arguments, Shankara, with biting ridicule asks, “How can there be prarabdha for the unreal, which naturally is unborn and, consequently, non-existing?”‘
Notice how Swami Chinmayananda in his above commentary equates ‘unreal’ with ‘non-existing’ and also equates these with ‘non-perception’ and being ‘unborn’. Of course, these terms are synonymous in Vedanta teachings, but later more modern commentators try to twist the words of the scriptures by stating such things as ‘In Vedanta, real means temporary and unreal means permanent’ or other false notions such as ‘Mithya doesn’t mean unreal, it means dependent reality‘. Of course, no such teaching is ever given in Vedanta scriptures or teachings, these being distortions for the mind in order for the mind to make sense of a teaching – more on this in this video and this link here: https://tomdas.com/2024/09/30/the-meaning-of-real-in-advaita-vedanta/
And in his commentary on verse 463 of Shankara’s Vivekachudamani, which we have discussed above already – first here is Swami Chinmayananda’s translation of the verse:
463. If the effects of ignorance are destroyed, root and all, by knowledge, how does the body continue to live? Sruti, from a relative standpoint hypothesises the work of prarabdha for those fools who entertain such doubts
Now let us see the commentary on this verse 463 from Swami Chinmayananda:
In this verse the Acharya tries to explain why even the Upanishads discuss this great concept of prarabdha working upon all bodies including that of the man of Perfection. This is done only from a relative stand-point, to quieten the foolish doubt of an ignorant student.The student sees the body of the Master continuously functioning in the world and naturally, therefore, he feels that the Master continues living because of his prarabdha. Little does he understand that from the lofty panoramic vision of the Master, there is no body, that he is but the pure Self…thus the Upanishads compromise and condescend to accept the concept of prarabdha for the man of realisation only to help the dull ones who are still living in the realms of plurality.
Sri Nisaragadatta Maharaj
Here are some quotes from Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj on Ajata Vada teachings taken from this post here (see this post for even more quotes like this)
The body and mind are only symptoms of ignorance, of misapprehension.
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He who knows the state in which there is neither the world nor the thought of it, he is the Supreme Teacher.
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What do you know of me, when even my talk with you is in your world only?
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NM: The body appears in your mind; in my mind nothing is. Q: Do you mean to say you are quite unconscious of having a body? NM: On the contrary, I am conscious of not having a body. Q: I see you smoking! NM: Exactly so. You see me smoking. Find out for yourself how did you come to see me smoking, and you will easily realize that it is your ‘I am the body’ state of mind that is responsible for this ‘I see you smoking’ idea.
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Nothing dies. The body is just imagined. There is no such thing.
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In my world nothing happens
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NM: My world is real, while yours is made of dreams Q: Yet we are talking. NM: The talk is in your world. In mine – there is eternal silence. My silence sings, my emptiness is full, I lack nothing. You cannot know my world until you are there.
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In reality, nothing ever happens.
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No doubt imagination is richly creative. Universe within universe are built on it. Yet they are all in space and time, past and future, which just do not exist.
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In pure consciousness nothing ever happens
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Do understand that what you think to be the world is your own mind
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I take my stand where no difference exists, where things are not, nor the minds that create them. There I am at home.
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All thinking is in duality. In identity [Tom: ie. self realisation] no thought surives
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Now go within, into a state in which you may compare to a state of waking sleep, in which you are aware of yourself, but not of the world. In that state you will know, without the least trace of doubt, that at the root of your being you are free and happy.
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To know yourself, turn your attention away from the world and turn it within.
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Tom:
There are many other quotes I could give, but hopefully the above gives a flavor of the higher teachings of some of the great sages of the past
This article is an excerpt from a much longer article which you can view here, that gives further quotes from others including Sri Ramana Maharshi, more quotes from Shankara, Suresvara (Shankara’s main student), Yoga Vasistha and Ribhu Gita on this same topic.
There was a particular conceptual world-view that great sages such as Sri Ramana Maharshi encouraged us to take on, if we are able to, in order to facilitate our spritual practice and thereby attain self-realisation or liberation.
For lower seekers of liberation, meaning for those whose minds were unable to be open to the higher teachings, Sri Ramana Maharshi and the great sages often did not give the teachings we will outline below, but for those whose minds were ready and ripe, he would often encourage this following view of creation and the world, as it is this conceptual view that most readily allows the seeker’s mind to properly do self-enquiry and thereby realise the Self.
However, rest assured, that regardless of how one conceives of the world, meaning that even if you do NOT agree with the teachings below, if one makes an earnest attempt to understand and carry out Self-Enquiry, liberation will be assured irrespective of your conceptual view on liberation and the world. Then you will discover the truth for yourself.
A warning/disclaimer
The teachings that are given below, whilst they are open to anyone, they are very radical in their nature. It is not recommended that you read them if you are not an earnest seeker of liberation or if your mind is likely to be destabilised by a more radical notion of the nature of the universe or what liberation looks like.
We will see that these same exact teachings have been given for many centuries, but traditionally these teachings would only be given to a prepared mind, a mind prepared by devotion, faith and loving surrender. This infuses the mind and heart with an energy of peace, calm and loving kindness and happiness. It is this stable peaceful mind that is most able to receive these teachings, although it is possible there can be some exceptions to this.
Some people can find these teachings quite distressing and destablising and the author of this post takes no responsibility for providing this information to you that has been traditionally written about and taught for many centuries and is already in the public domain.
Be open minded to receive these teachings
Similarly, the ego-mind will often reject these teachings when it first hears them. Often a person’s ego will only be able to come to these teachings once it has suffered enough. The more insight the ego has into suffering, and the more it is able to contemplate the causes of suffering, then the more likely it is able to appreciate the truth of these teachings.
Usually only a sharp intellect is usually able to discern these teachings. Many people read these types of spiritual teachings and immediately project their own preconceived ideas onto them, and so distort the teachings from the very beginning. If we keep an open mind and read the range of quotes given, we will inevitably see what they are truly pointing too. If we cling to our own preconceived notions then we are less likely to receive these teachings in the way they were intended.
These teachings are rare and often misunderstood
Many prominent spiritual teachers, including prominent teachers of advaita and non-duality, give out distorted versions of these teaching, so it is important to be able to temporarily put aside all you have learnt whilst reading or listening to these teachings if you really want to understand what the intended communication actually is.
It is also important to not assume that all spiritual teachers are teaching their own versions of the Same One Teaching, and be open to the fact that they may be teaching very different things; just because a teaching is helpful, doesn’t mean it is liberating; and just because a teaching isn’t liberating, it doesn’t mean it will not be helpful to you.
The Jnani does not see the world
Sri Ramana often said that the Jnani (self-realised or liberate Sage) is totally unaware of the body, the mind and the world, and that the liberated sage also has no awareness of the 3 states of dream, deep sleep or waking, all of which are a projection of ignorance (aka the mind). We will see below that Sri Shankara says the same, as does his guru’s guru, Sri Gaudapada, as well as his student, Sri Suresvara.
Sri Gaudapada’s Mandukya Karira and Shankara’s commentary on this
Gaudapada, who was the guru of Shankara’s guru, also makes these teachings (ie. that the body mind and world no longer appear in liberation, ie. Ajata Vada) very clear repeatedly throughout his writings, and Shankara makes these same points in several of his other commentaries too. If you read discerningly you can see Gaudapada makes the following points in the quotes below (as Shankara has already made these points above), and that Shankara brings these very points out in his own commentary on Gaudapada’s verses:
The term ‘duality’ refers to the appearance of objects
Similarly the term ‘non-duality’ refers to that which remains when no objects whatsoever arise
In non-duality there is no duality whatsoever, not even as an appearance (some people are of the impression that the non-dual acts as a ‘container’ for the apparently dual)
The entire world (of phenomenal arisings), which is duality, is projected or created by ignorance and is also known as ‘the effects of ignorance’.
Ignorance is also known as the mind, and every thing (object) we perceive, from the subtle to the gross, is actually a manifestion of thought or mind
When the mind stops, that is the cessation of ignorance; then there are no thoughts, no duality and therefore no effects of ignorance (ie. no appearance of body, thoughts/feelings or the world) as their cause (ignorance) has been removed.
This is akin to the rope and the snake, wherein the snake disappears when the truth of the rope is seen; similarly the arising phenomena, which are illusory like the rope, all cease when the truth of Self is realised.
It is spoken as if there are two levels or aspects of reality – (1) conventional or relative reality consisting of the body mind and world ie. all objects or duality, and (2) the Ultimate or the Absolute, which is the non-dual Brahman/Atman. However, although it is spoken of as two levels, in truth, only one of these actually exists, and in self-realisation it is seen that the relative never existed at all, not even as an appearance. The notion of there being two aspects of reality is a fictional concesession merely used as a teaching device for the ignorant who are presently unable to fathom the unreality and non-existence of the phenomenal world. See herefor more.
If we read discerningly and carefully, we will see that several other notions or theories are refuted by the quotes below and therefore not compatible with them:
the notion that in self-realisation all phenomena continue to arise but are seen as illusion (for it is only the ego or ignorance that sees phenomena or could know phenomena as being real or illusory)
the notion that in self-realisation all phenomena continue to arise but are seen as one with Self (for to admit to phenomena arising would be to admit to multiplicity or duality as somehow existing or apparently existing in the self, and this is not permissable according to the scriptures)
the notion that for the realised sage the body-mind continues according to its remaining (prarabdha) karma – this is a lower teaching for those who are unable to accept the radical ajata teachings explained above.
the notion that when Gaudapada or Shankara deny objects, they are not really denying the objects, but just the notion they are separate from the Self. It is important to note in the quotes below that (1) this view is denied by Shankara and (2) nowhere in the scriptures is this view given, apart from as a lower view.
because the world is an illusion, there is no need to do a practice or have a teacher, as these too are part of the illusion. No, rather the teaching and teacher, whilst ultimately being part of the illusion, they are part of the illusion that help us get out of the illusion, like dreaming of a lion that scares us and wakes us up from that dream. There is a specific teaching and practice that is necessary to undergo whilst the illusion/ignorance appears to exist, and whilst we consider ourself to be a person living in a world and thereby suffering accordingly.
Before we get to verses from Gaudapada, let us read Shankara’s introduction to his commentary on Mandukya Upanishad and Karika, where he explains the purpose of the text:
‘What is the aim of the text? Let me explain: just as a healthy person afflicted by disease will seek a cure for the disease in order to regain the natural state of health, the natural state of being the Self, when afflicted by suffering, will be returned to its ‘natural state of health’ through the cessation of the phenomenal universe of duality.
The aim therefore is the realisation of non-duality. Since the phenomenal world of duality is a creation of ignorance, it can be eradicated through knowledge.’
~ Sri Shankara, introduction to his commentary on Mandukya Upanishad and Mandukya Karika
We can see right that the outset Sri Shankara is summarising the teachings. Let us now see what Gaudapda says in his writings. If we read carefully and discerningly, we will see he is giving a very clear teaching. As usual, unless we read with a clear and discerning mind, the true teaching may ellude us:
‘This duality, which consists of the moving [ie. living beings/creatures] and the unmoving [ie. inert or non-living things], is a projection seen by the mind. Indeed, when there is the state of no-mind, this duality is not perceived/experienced at all.’
Gaudapada states that duality, which consists of all living and non-living things – ie. all objects – is merely a projection of the mind, and when the mind no longer exists (later it will be explained the mind no longer appears or exists in self-realisation), this duality is not experienced/perceived at all. Note how Guadapada specifically refers to and thereby defines duality as the objective realm of living and non-living things, and note how Gaudapada is clear there is no duality in non-duality. Shankara, in his commentary on this verse, states the following:
This duality as a whole, that is perceived by the mind, is nothing but the mind, which itself is imagined – this is the proposition. For duality endures so long as the mind does, and disappears with the disappearance of the mind.
~ Sri Shankara, commentary on Mandukya Karika 3.31
See here how Shankara repeats that duality is a projection of the mind, which itself is a projection/imagination – ie. the mind itself is not a real entity. Note how Shankara also asserts that all phenomenal arising are themselves nothing but mind, and they all disappear when the mind disappears (it will be explained later that the mind disappears in self-realisation).
Shankara also writes the same in his wonderful masterpiece of a text, Vivekachudamani, in many verses, some of which I have included below. Verse 170 in particular was highlighted by Sri Ramana Maharshi as containing a most essential teaching of Vedanta – (see here for verses Sri Ramana Maharshi thought were most important in Vivekachudamani, and see here for more verses like these from Vivekachudamani, as there are many more – this last link also explains the method by which liberation is attained which is not explored so much in this post, and is perhaps the more important topic!):
169. There is no Ignorance (Avidya) outside the mind. The mind alone is Avidya, the cause of the bondage of transmigration. When that is destroyed, all else is destroyed, and when it is manifested, everything else is manifested.
170. In dreams, when there is no actual contact with the external world, the mind alone creates the whole universe consisting of the experiencer etc. Similarly in the waking state also; there is no difference. Therefore all this (phenomenal universe) is the projection of the mind.
179. Man’s transmigration is due to the evil of superimposition, and the bondage of superimposition is created by the mind alone.
180. Hence sages who have fathomed its secret have designated the mind as Avidya or ignorance, by which alone the universe is moved to and fro, like masses of clouds by the wind.
407. This apparent universe has its root in the mind, and never persists after the mind is annihilated. Therefore dissolve the mind by concentrating it on the Supreme Self, which is thy inmost Essence.
~ Sri Shankara, Vivekachudamani
See also how Shankara insists duality ends when the mind ends and equates duality with the appearance of objects or phenomenal arisings. You can also see Shankara is equating ignorance with maya (the power the projects the illusory world) repeatedly. Shankara goes on to say the following in his commentary on the same verse:
For, when the mind ceases to be mind, like the disappearance of the illusory snake in the rope, the mind’s activity stops through the practice of wisdom and detachment, or when the mind gets absorbed in the state of deep sleep, duality is not perceived.
~ Sri Shankara, commentary on Mandukya Karika 3.31
Shankara is likening the illusory projection of objects onto the self to the illusory projection of the snake onto the rope: just like the snake disappears when the truth of the rope is seen, the objects disappear when the truth of the Self is seen/known/realised. Sri Ramana Maharshi explains this same exact teaching in his text ‘Who Am I?’ as follows:
If the mind, which is the cause of all [objective] knowledge and all action, subsides, the perception of the world (jagat-drishti) will cease. Just as the knowledge of the rope, which is the base, will not be obtained unless the knowledge of the snake, the superimposition, goes, so the realization of Self, which is the base, will not be obtained unless the perception of the world which is a superimposition, ceases.
~ Sri Ramana Maharshi, ‘Who Am I?’
Note that Shankara states that objects cease to appear both in deep sleep (when no objects are perceived) and in Self-realisation, making clearer the intended meaning that ‘duality’ refers to the presence or perception or appearance of objects, and that these are absent in self-realisation. Shankara in his commentary then asks how to attain this state of ‘no-mind’ and says this will be explained in Gaudapada’s next verse. In the next verse Gaudapada explains that this no-mind state is attained through self-realisation, and that the mind no longer exists in Self-realisation due to there being no thoughts present:
‘The mind ceases to think as a consequence of the realisation of the Truth that is the Self (Atmasatya), then the mind attains the state of no-mind; in the absence of objects to be perceived, it ceases that perception (of objects).’
Ātma-satya-anubodhenā na saṅkalpayate yadā | Amanastāṃ tadā yāti grāhy-ābhāve tad-grahaṃ
~ Sri Gaudapada, Mandukya Karika 3.32
We can see here in verse 3.32 Gaudapada is stating that in Self-Realisation, all thoughts cease, and when all thoughts cease, there is no mind. Verse 3.31 has already stated that the mind is the cause of the appearance of all objects, the implication is therefore that when the mind ceases to think, it ceases to project any phenomena or objects, and therefore no arising phenomena or objects are perceived in the self. In 3.32 Gaudapada states in the state of no-mind, there are no objects to be perceived and therefore no perception of objects remains. Shankara write the following in his commentary on this verse:
The mind does not think, as fire does not burn in the absense of fuel, then at that time it attains the state of no-mind. In the absense of objects to be perceived, that mind becomes free from the entire illusion of perception.
~ Sri Shankara, commentary on Mandukya Karika 3.32
Notice how Shankara is comparing the mind to fire and objects to fuel – he is saying just as there can be no fire without fuel, there can be no mind without objects appearing/being present. This is the state of no-mind, or self-realisation, in which freedom from all of Maya or phenomenal arising occurs. Again we see the same teaching from Sri Ramana Maharshi in his text ‘Who Am I?’:
What is called mind (manam) is a wondrous power existing in Self. It projects all thoughts. If we set aside all thoughts and see, there will be no such thing as mind remaining separate; therefore, thought itself is the nature (or form) of the mind. Other than thoughts, there is no such thing as the world. In deep sleep there are no thoughts, (and hence) there is no world; in waking and dream there are thoughts, (and hence) there is the world also, Just as the spider spins out the thread from within itself and again withdraws it into itself, so the mind projects the world from within itself and again absorbs it into itself. When the mind comes out (rises) from Self, the world appears. Therefore, when the world appears, Self will not appear; and when Self appears (shines), the world will not appear…The mind can exist only by always depending upon something gross [ie. objects]; by itself it cannot stand’
~ Sri Ramana Maharshi, ‘Who Am I?’
We can see how Sri Ramana also concurs with Shankara and Gaudapada stating that the entire world is merely a projection of the mind, comparing this to a spider projecting a web (a traditional metaphor also used by Shankara in his commentaries) – an apt comparison before the days of computer simulation and wide use of projecting devices. Sri Ramana also states that when the world appears, the Self will not be realised and vice verse – when the Self is realised, the world will not appear. This is made even clearer in the question and answer version of ‘Who Am I?’:
Question 4. When will the realisation of the Self be gained? Sri Ramana: When the world, which is what-is-seen, has been removed, there will be realisation of the Self, which is the seer
Question 5. Will there not be realisation of the Self even while the world is there? Sri Ramana: There will not be
~ Sri Ramana Maharshi, ‘Who Am I?’ (Question and Answer version)
Also note how Sri Ramana uses an analogy similar to Shankara’s fuel/fire analogy when he writes ‘The mind can exist only by always depending upon something gross [ie. objects]; by itself it cannot stand‘, meaning that devoid of objects, the mind cannot survive, just as fire cannot survive without fuel.
Shankara and Ramana are both stating that in self realisation, objects or duality no longer exist or even appear to exist, and therefore, as the mind mind cannot exist without objects, it too can no longer exist. This causality can also be stated the other way round, as causality itself is an illusion, so we can also say that as objects (all living and non-living things as Gaudapada and Shankara put it) are projection of the mind, when the mind becomes no-mind, ie. when there are no thoughts and when therefore there is no mind, the objects can no longer appear. Shankara makes this point repeatedly in his commentaries on other Upanishads and in his various other writings such as Upadesa Saharsri, eg:
All this world is unreal and proceeds from ignorance, because it is seen only by one afflicted by ignorance
~ Sri Shankara, Upadesa Sahasri 17.20
‘For it is not possible for the same person to be engaged in thoughts of sense-objects and to have the vision of the Self as well.’
~Sri Shankara, commentary on Katha Upanishad 2.1.1
‘The highest truth is that in Brahman, which is Truth by nature, nothing whatsoever, not even a jot or a tittle, is born [ie. no phenomenal appearances arise whatsoever]‘
~ Sri Shankara, commentary on Mandukya Karika 3.48
Shankara makes it clear that in Self-Realisation objects do not even arise as an appearance
These teachings are usually only discernable by people of sharp intellect (or intuitively by those who dive deep within and realise the Self or who experience revelation through Grace of God). Despite the above verses, which make the teachings very clear, some people say that Shankara and Gaudapada are not really saying there are no objects that appear in the Self, but they instead are saying that objects do appear and arise in the Self but are either seen to be the Self, or they are seen to be unreal/illusory arisings and in this sense they do not exist: objects arise and appear, but they are not real, like a dream may arise and appear, but is ultimately not real. This view is known as Dristi-Sristi Vada (DSV), and this view is different from Ajata Vada as expounded by Shankara and Gaudapada – see this article here where this is more clearly explained.
Both Shankara and Gaudapada in various places explicity refute this notion of DSV. Towards the end of Chapter 4 of his Mandukya Karika, Gaudapada makes this very point. He states that in order to explain for purposes of teaching we talk about 2 levels of reality:
1) Vyavaharika – firstly there is the vyvaharika or realm of objects, also called conventional reality, transactional reality (because you can transact objects here), the empirical outlook, the phenomenal realm, the relative world of (living and non-living) things, or maya. We can see from the earlier verses cited above that this is also known as duality or the mind.
2) Paramarthika – and secondly there is paramartikha or the ultimate truth, also known as the Self/Atman, the Absolute reality, Brahman. This is no-mind or non-duality where no duality whatsoever is present.
Both Shankara and Gaudapada state that for purposes of teaching usually these 2 levels are acknowledged, but in reality only one of them, Atman, truly exists, and the first one appears to exist only due to maya or ignorance or the mind. This is akin to saying that for teaching purposes we temporarily or provisionally admit of duality or ignorance as actually existing: we talk as if objects, people and things are real and existent, but in truth these things do not exist whatsoever, not even as an appearance, ie. there is no duality in non-duality, or put differently, there are no objects that arise (or are ‘born’) in the self, nothing ever happened and ignorance or maya never existed at all in any way shape or form. This is the meaning of ajata vada, as explained by Shankara and Gaudapada.
Logically, it should be obvious that there cannot really be two points of view if reality is truly non-dual, for two points of view denotes duality.
This teaching comes to a crescendo in Chapter 4 of Gaudapada’s Karika and Shankara makes clear and highlights this teaching even further. For example starting in verse 4.61 through to 4.70 Gaudapada and Shankara explain the (lower and ultimately false) teaching of Dristi-Sristi Vada, namely that all objects arise in consciousness as consciousness and all objective arisings are one with that consciousness. In verse 4.68 Gaudapda states this conventional reality of objects appearing is like a dream, in which all dream phenomena are a projection of mind and one with the mind-consciousness in which they appear, and in verses 4.69 and 4.70 they state it could also be likened to an illusion created by a magician (4.69) or a hallucination created by drugs, etc (4.70). In both these cases the objects come and go, but the consciousness onto which they are projected or superimposed is constant and unchanging.
But then in verse 4.71 Gaudapada states in the highest truth, ie. in self-realisation, no living being is ever born, as there is no source or cause for it (the cause or source for birth would be ignorance, also known as maya, ego or mind):
‘No creature whatsoever has birth, there is no source for it. This is the highest truth where nothing whatsoever is born’
~ Sri Gaudapada, Mandukya Karika 4.71
Shankara then makes this teaching even clearer in his commentary on this verse:
‘It has been said that birth, death, etc of creatures within the range of empirical existence are like those of the creatures in a dream etc, but the highest truth is that where no creature undergoes birth. The remaining portion was explained before [in his commentary on verse 3.48 cited above]’
~ Sri Shankara, commentary on Mandukya Karika 4.71
We can see in this commentary Shankara is clearly refuting the idea that objects continue to appear, like in a dream, in Self-realisation, as in actuality no objects appear (no objects are ‘born’). Shankara refers to his previous comments on verse 3.48 where he writes ‘The highest truth is that in Brahman, which is Truth by nature, nothing whatsoever, not even a jot or a tittle, is born [ie. no phenomenal appearances arise whatsoever]‘.
In the next verse the same teaching is given in a different way: here it is said that objects arise from a vibration of the self, which is the mind or ignorance:
‘The duality of the perceiver and the perceived is the vibration or movement of consciousness or mind (citta-spandikam); yet consciousness itself is always without an object, eternal, and unattached — therefore, it is so described or proclaimed.
cittaspandikamevedaṃ grāhyagrāhakavaddvayam cittaṃ nirviṣayaṃ nityamasaṃgaṃ tena kīrtitam
~ Sri Gaudapada, Mandukya Karika 4.72
Shankara writes in his commentary on this verse:
All duality, which consists of a subject and object, is a vibration of mind/consciousness. But from the Ultimate point of view, consciousness is nothing but the Self, and accordingly it is nirvasayam, without objects…as consciousness is without objects, it is unattached, this is the meaning [of the verse].
~ Sri Shankara, commentary on Mandukya Karika 4.72
We can see that Shankara is clearly stating that unlike a dream or magic show or a drug-induced or otherwise-induced hallucination, in (Ultimate) Reality, appearances or objects no longer arise. In the next verse Gaudapada makes this even clearer:
‘That which exists because of a fancied empirical (relative) outlook, does not do so from the standpoint of the absolute Reality. Anything that may exist on the strength of the empirical outlook, taught by various other schools of thought, does not really exist‘
Gaudapada is clearly stating that that which appears to exist from a relative point of view is actually non-existent in self-realisation. In his commentary on this verse Shankara emphasises this same point stating that the empirical outlook is an imagined illusion that certainly has no actual existence.
All of this has already been stated earlier in Chapter 2 of the same Mandukya Karika, eg. 2.17:
As a rope whose nature has not been well ascertained is imagined in the dark to be various things like a snake, a line of water, etc, so also is the Self imagined variously
~ Sri Gaudapada, Mandukya Karika 2.17
On his commentary on this verse Shankara states the following:
‘..this is the illustration – similarly the Self is imagined to be such countless diverse objects as an individual creature or the vital force, etc, just because It has not been ascertained in its true nature to be pure intelligence, existence and non-duality, and different from such evils as cause and effects that are characteristics of the world. This is the conclusion of all Upanishads’
~ Sri Shankara, commentary on Mandukya Karika 2.17
Some may argue that unlike the rope and snake in which the snake disappears when the rope is seen, when the Highest Truth (of Self) is seen the appearance of the world does not disappear but it continues, but Gaudapada and Shankara both refute this view in the next verse:
‘As illusion (eg. of the snake) ceases and the rope alone remains when the rope is ascertained to be nothing but the rope, so also is the ascertainment about the Self’
~Sri Gaudapada, Mandukya Karika 2.18
Shankara makes it explicitly clear what exactly this means in his commentary on this verse:
‘As on certainly realising that the rope is nothing but a rope all imaginations disappear and there remains rope alone without anything else, so also from the scriptural text ‘neti, neti’ [Brihadaranyaka Upanishad 4.4.22] establishing the Self as devoid of all wordly attributes, there dawn, as a result of the light of the sun of realisation certainty about the Self.’
~ Sri Shankara, commentary on Mandukya Karika 2.18
We can clearly see the analogy between the rope and the imaginary appearance of the illusory snake, is analogous to the Self and the imaginary appearance of objects, and Shankara is clearly stating that the appearances no longer arise in self-realisation. We have already seen that Sri Ramana wrote the same in his text ‘Who am I?’:
If the mind, which is the cause of all [objective] knowledge and all action, subsides, the perception of the world (jagat-drishti) will cease. Just as the knowledge of the rope, which is the base, will not be obtained unless the knowledge of the snake, the superimposition, goes, so the realization of Self, which is the base, will not be obtained unless the perception of the world which is a superimposition, ceases.
~ Sri Ramana Maharshi, ‘Who Am I?’
But perhaps Shankara says it best in his own introduction to the Mandukya Upanishad where he writes:
‘Since the phenomenal world of duality is a creation of ignorance, it can be eradicated through knowledge, and hence this book is begun in order to reveal the knowledge of Brahman’
~ Shankara, introduction to his commentary on Mandukya Upanishad and Gaudapada’s Karika
Shankara also makes the following remark in his introduction, this time summarising chapter 2 of Mandukya Karika:
‘The second chapter is concerned with rationally proving the unreality of the phenomenal world of duality, on the cessation of which is attained non-duality, just as the reality of the rope is know on the elimination of the illusion of the snake etc imagined upon it’
~ Shankara, introduction to his commentary on Mandukya Upanishadand Gaudapada’s Karika
Lastly I will leave you with a verse from Chandogya Upanishad and Shankara’s commentary on this:
‘The infinite is that where one does not see anything else, does not hear anything else, and does not understand anything else. Hence, the finite is that where one sees something else, hears something else, and understands something else. That which indeed is the Infinite is immortal. On the other hand, that which is finite is mortal’
~ Chandogya Upanishad 7.24.1
Shankara writes the following in his commentary on this verse – note he is making a statement about the entire text. Hopefully given all of the above the meaning is clear without my having to comment any further:
‘Therefore the meaning of the whole text is that phenomenal dealing does not exist in the Infinite…the idea is that this [phenomenal dealing] exists during the period of ignorance. It is like a thing seen in a dream, which only exists in that period, before waking’
~ Shankara’s commentary on Chandogya Upanishad 7.24.1
There are so many more quotes, both from Gaudapada and Shankara, on this same topic that give the same teaching. If we explore Shankara’s other commentaries we see these same teachings given again and again. For example, see this post here on Chapter 1 of Gaudapada’s Karika which explains many things including:
the True Self (Atman) is also known as Turiya
there are no phenomenal arisings in Turiya/Atman
no cause or effect or karma exists in Turiya/Atman
in Turiya/Atman there is no consciousness of the waking, dream or deep sleep state
in truth we cannot even say the the phenomenal world disappears in liberation, as when truth (self) is realised, it is ‘known’ that the phenomenal world never even arose or appeared in the first place (ie. the radical ajata doctrine is being ellucidated here)
See here for the rest of this articlewhich provides extensive quotes from Sri Ramana Maharshi, more quotes from Shankara, and other quotes from Yoga Vasistha and Ribhu Gita on this same topic of Ajata Vada
Is the Law of Attraction a cruel cosmic joke, or a misunderstood doorway to true fulfilment? Drawing from the wisdom of Sri Ramana Maharshi, Tom explores the deeper truth behind desire, manifestation, and what it really means to get what we truly want.
This video was recorded live during a Satsang meeting with Tom Das on November 27, 2025 and put together by volunteers.
Devotee: There are widespread disasters spreading havoc in the world e.g., famine and pestilence. What is the cause of this state of affairs?
Sri Ramana Maharshi: You were not aware of the world and its sufferings in your sleep; you are conscious of them in your wakeful state. Continue in that state in which you were not afflicted by these. That is to say, when you are not aware of the world, its sufferings do not affect you. When you remain as the Self, as in sleep, the world and its sufferings will not affect you. Therefore look within. See the Self! There will be an end of the world and its miseries.
D.: But that is selfishness.
M.: The world is not external. Because you identify yourself wrongly with the body you see the world outside, and its pain becomes apparent to you. But they are not real. Seek the reality and get rid of this unreal feeling.
D.: There are great men, public workers, who cannot solve the problem of the misery of the world.
M.: They are ego-centred and therefore their inability. If they remained in the Self they would be different.
After the invocation to Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi, Tom offers a vital talk on what Ramana discovered as the foremost path of all — Self-Inquiry, the question “Who am I?”.
He invites us to reflect: What path are we really following? With vivid metaphors and images, Tom illuminates how the practice of Self-Inquiry is unlike any other activity, spiritual or worldly. Instead of planning, scheming, playing, creating… we turn toward the “I” itself — the doer we believe ourselves to be. This is the source of all problems, the very root of suffering.
Though this is deeply challenging for the mind, Tom reminds us that awakening to our true nature is the freedom we long for. Nothing special is required; by opening up to the question, “Who Am I?” along with sacred silence and Bhagavan’s grace, liberation shines and delusion and ignorance are seen to have never occurred.
Here is Part 1:
In this second part, Tom responds with clarifications and pointers to help deepen understanding. If you have your own reflections or questions, you’re welcome to share them in the comments below.
Tom Das 