This video was excerpted from the Satsang dated 1st August 2024:
vedanta
‘It is wrong to call Self the Witness’ – Sri Ramana Maharshi
The following is an excerpt from this post: Is the Self a witness? Or is it everything? Or both?
Sri Ramana Maharshi has taught us in Guru Vachaka Kovai verse 98 (Guru Vachaka Kovai is the most authoritative record of Sri Ramana Maharshi’s verbal teachings according to Sri Ramana Ashram):
98. Unless the body is taken to be ‘I’, otherness – the world of moving and unmoving objects – cannot be seen. Hence, because otherness – the creatures and their Creator – does not exist, it is wrong to call Self the Witness.
Sri Sadhu Om, a direct devotee of Sri Ramana Maharshi, writes in his commentary on this verse:
Descriptions of self as the ‘witness of the individual soul’ (jiva sakshi) or the ‘witness of everything’ (sarva sakshi), which can be found in some sacred texts, are not true but are only figurative (upacara), because only when other things are known would the one who knows them be a ‘witness’ of them. Since self does not know anything in the state of absolute oneness, which is devoid of any other thing, to what can it be a witness? Therefore describing self as a ‘witness’ is incorrect.
What both Sri Ramana Maharshi and Sri Sadhu Om are saying is that objects only appear when the ego/ignorance is present. In Self-realisation, there are no objects, only the Self, so in truth the Self cannot be said to be a witness.
In verse 869 of Guru Vachaka Kovai Sri Ramana teaches us:
869. ’Tis a foolish fancy to ascribe the role of ‘witness’ to the Self, the luminous Sun, the mighty sky of Pure Awareness. In the Self Immutable there is no room for maya’s darkness void. The Self is one sole whole without a second.
Here is an alternative translation of the same verse, with Sri Sadhu Om’s commentary, which essentially states in truth, ie. in realisation, there is no Maya in the Self. It is only for ajnani’s, ie. the ignorant, that consider the Self to be a witness of phenomena/maya:
869. The role [dharma] of seeing is ascribed to Self – the space of consciousness, the sun – only in the imagination of ajnanis, [because] maya, the empty ignorance [of seeing otherness], never exists in Self, the support [sthanu], [and also because] Self is without a second.
Sri Sadhu Om’s comments: Since Self is in truth that which transcends all roles and all qualities, and since It exists as one without a second, to glorify It as the ‘witness of all’ [sarva-sakshi] or as the ‘knower of all’ [sarvajna] is merely the folly of ignorant people.
Q. Do Neo-advaita teachings point to the same realisation as traditional Advaita Vedanta and Ramana Maharshi?
Q. Tom, do you believe that the neo advaita teachings do point to the same realisation as Sri Ramana’s teachings? Because from what I have read of the neo advaita teachings, they do not even point to the Absolute Self in a clear way and are not even talking about the same realisation. They don’t speak of the Absolute Self but “the absolute appearing as the relative” in their words, so I think that following those teachings do not lead to the same realisation.
Tom: I agree, the neo-advaita teachings do not lead to the same genuine realisation in my view. They do not lead to genuine absolute love, non-duality and cessation of suffering. Please see the introductory articles on the tomdas.com homepage and my recommended reading list for more on this.
Q. YOU SAY NEO-ADVAITA CAN SOMETIMES BE HARMFUL. PLEASE CAN YOU EXPLAIN?
Tom: it varies. Here in the UK there are quite a lot of neo-advaita teachers and being UK based myself, over the years I have dealt with many people who have been very traumatised by these teachings and I have guided them through the process of undoing many of the false concepts and beliefs present in neo-advaita teachings.
The neo-advaita ‘non-teachings’ can be very abrupt and triggering and not leave (apparent) people with any sense of agency or empowerment to deal with the consequences.
I have seen near psychotic breakdowns, severe anxiety and panic disorder, depersonalisation and derealisation, relationships fall apart, people losing their jobs, lots of confusion and disorientation, depression…
In my experience Neo-advaita tends to be a feel-good teaching in the moment for those it helps, and mainly is for the intellect.
It feels good in the moment but the sense of duality and confusion keeps on returning, and it doesn’t lead to a genuine realisation of truth or love. When one engages with genuine self-enquiry we come to see just how superficial the neo-advaita teachings are
Neo-Advaita is actually far away from the true teachings even though some of the words sound similar. In some ways neo-advaita is more intellectually coherent than true Advaita teachings, but that doesn’t make it true or effective.
In my experience the true teachings, such as the teachings of Sri Ramana Maharshi, guide us directly and unfailingly to realisation, the shortest route so to speak, with the minimal amount of suffering along the way.
Q. CAN YOU EXPLAIN THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN NEO-ADVAITA AND ADVAITA?
Tom: Neo Advaita says all is already one, there is already no ego-self, and no need for any practice. In fact, any practice just perpetuates and strengthens the illusory notion of an ego-self. Suffering and worldly happenings are just things that occur to ‘nobody’.
Advaita says all is already one, there is already no ego-self, but due to ignorance there appears to be a world consisting of many people and things, of which you are one. Through self-enquiry, in which one places ones attention onto ones own self, the Subject, and ignores/turns away from objective phenomena, one can destroy this ignorance and realise that the apparent mutiplicity is an unreal illusion and there is only the formless self which is devoid of suffering. It is then seen that ignorance never actually occurred and there were never any actual people or things at all.
My own experience is that neo-advaita, whilst sounding intellectually coherent, does not lead to liberation at all and suffering, duality and egotism all actually continue, whereas Advaita, whilst appearing to be dualistic in some ways, is totally liberating and ends suffering and duality completely. They are actually quite distinct teachings that both claim to be ‘non-duality’.
Note that in my experience many prominent Advaita and Advaita Vedanta teachers actually teach distorted teachings, and that the genuine teachings of Sri Ramana Maharshi are the best teachings I have come across to point the way to liberation.
Aham Sphurana book excerpt – Solipsism and the shock of hearing the Ajata teachings | Sri Ramana Maharshi | Advaita Vedanta
The following is a teaching excerpt from a large unedited manuscript, well over 1000 pages long, called ‘Aham Sphurana’. You can find out more and download the entire text here.
Aham Sphurana [‘I Shining’ or ‘I vibration’ or ‘I Am shining’ or ‘Shining of the I AM’] claims to contain a collection of previously unpublished talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi as apparently recorded by a visitor to Sri Ramana Ashrama, Sri Gajapathi Aiyyer, in 1936.
The authenticity of the teachings as being genuinely from Sri Ramana Maharshi cannot be confirmed, a fact acknowledged in the manuscript preamble itself, but I share these teachings here in case they are of interest to you. Note that the essential teachings presented here are no different to the teachings from Sri Ramana Maharshi you will find elsewhere, but the way they are presented may be helpful to many.
11th July 1936
Sri Ramana Maharshi: When a man is told he is neither the body nor the mind, he is initially puzzled, because all along his life his experience of self has been confined to these two only. When he hears the words of the Jnana-guru for the first time, he learns to his shock that these two [Tom: ie. body and mind] are suddenly to be regarded as unreal, insignificant and immaterial, and Consciousness of Being alone is to be treated as Real and material.
To one whose understanding of the world is sustained by conceptual knowledge and whose life is ruled by subject-object relationships, this can be too much of a shock to bear. He either laughs off the Ajata-advaita doctrine as sheer nonsense developed by mischievous minds that have nothing better to do, or takes it seriously and is shocked by the implications – everything he has ever known and cherished in his life is now suddenly revealed to be meaningless, fungible, evanescent and mutable, and thus unreal and unworthy of consideration, whereas what he had never before paid attention to is revealed as the only permanent, abiding Reality.
To one who has up till that point in time been regarding himself as a subject, finite across time and space, occupying an objective world, this revelation comes as a great emotional and mental upheaval, because he is attached to the things of the world.
One whose past sadhanas [Tom: spiritual practices] have weakened all attachment takes naturally to the idea that the world is a dream – either way it is not going to matter to him because he is not interested in it. The idea that the world does not exist as a collection of independent objects, but rather depends upon perception for its apparent existence, shocks some people. The evidence of the 5 sensory organs is merely random ‘information’. It does not denote that any such object is actually ‘out there’; there is no ‘out there’.
The inlet of consciousness is only one; therefore, all perceived depends upon the perceiver only; this consciousness, turned outside, is the world and its perceiver; turned inside it finds that it is the Self. Jagrat-prama [Tom: Knowledge of the waking state; Jagrat means the waking state, prama means knowledge] is the prama of jagrat-pramata [Tom: knower of the world; pramata means knower] [Tom: This entire sentence means that the [knowledge] of the waking state is knowledge for the knower of the waking state, ie. It is the ego that knows the waking state]. Apart from the perceiver there is no such thing as the perceived. The pramata [Tom:knower] believes he knows so many things about the world; he is merely accessing the contents of his own mind. All thoughts and perceptions are intra-mental modifications. The light of the Self falls on the aham-vritti and its children, the other vrittis, and a jiva [Tom: the (apparent) individual person] is born. It is for the aspirant to destroy all the other vrittis. The Self takes care of the nude ahamvritti – that is, destroys it. Then it will remain without reflection.
Questioner: This is pure solipsism – Berkeley’s Esse est percipi aut percipere [Tom: ‘to be is to be perceived or to perceive’ as expressed by George Berkeley].
Sri Ramana Maharshi: The solipsist says the mind is real, that everything, including the world and thoughts, that proceed from it is a phantom or shadow. He does not question the reality of the mind itself. I am asking you to go even further. I say that the mind itself is a shadow or phantom proceeding from the Self.
You will discover this as a matter of direct experience – if only you will probe into the source of the mind.
You ask why some do not Realize. You wonder whether prarabdha [Tom: fate or destiny] might be the reason. No. Prarabdha has no power to pull back into the world a jiva that is adamantly determined to disappear in its source forever. Then what is the reason, you ask. This is the reason – clinging fast to objective knowledge [Tom: this is the reason why some do not realise the Self – because they cling to objects].
There are learned pandits who have written rich commentaries volume after volume – upon various Advaitic texts which directly propound the Ajata-advaita doctrine- Ashtavakra Gita, Ribhu Gita, Panchadasi, Kaivalya Navaneetam, Ozhivil Odukkam, etc, etc. Go to their houses when a loved one has died, and ask how they feel. You may be met with a hostile stare. If you sit down then and there and explain all this, you may count yourself lucky if permitted thereafter to leave with your life. Where does the problem lie? All the learning has been in vain, because it has stopped at the level of the intellect.
It is unable to crush the Ego, because there was no practice. The only effort made was to read more books, go on writing commentaries, and go on receiving accolades for being ‘an Expert in the field of Advaita’, thus making the ego grow bigger and bigger. Never was effort made to still the ceaseless waves of thought. Even some effort in that direction might have brought a reciprocal flow of Grace from the Self. But no. Read, write, receive shawls at book-launch festivals, imagine oneself to be acting in a highly intelligent manner in saying the words, “No, no, it is all God’s work… I am an instrument in his hands, that is all…” there, receive applause, and inflate the ego further and further.
The Sun and the Earth may one day decide to interchange their positions out of boredom, but such people, who are infatuated with the poisonous wine of love for book-learning, cannot obtain True Knowledge. Objective knowledge and book-learning are the most deadly enemies on the path to Self-Realistion, because they are expertly disguised as sweet friends, and the disguise runs deep indeed.
First know who you are. This requires no sastras (scripture) or scholarship | Sri Ramana Maharshi
First know who you are. This requires no sastras (scripture) or scholarship. This is simple experience. The state of being is now and here all along. You have lost hold of yourself and are asking others for guidance. The purpose of philosophy is to turn the mind inward. “If you know yourself, no evil can come to you. Because you asked me I have told you this” (see Kaivalya Navaneeta). The ego comes up only by holding you (the Self). Hold yourself and the ego will vanish. Until then the sage will be happy saying, ‘There is’, and the ignorant will be asking, ‘Where?’
Regulation of life, such as getting up at a fixed hour, bathing, doing mantra-japa, etc., all this is for people who do not feel drawn to Self-enquiry, or are not capable of it. But for those who can practise this method all rules and disciplines are unnecessary.
Undoubtedly it is said in some books, that one should go on cultivating one good quality after another and thus prepare for moksha; but for those who follow the jnana or vichara marga, their sadhana is itself quite enough for acquiring all daivic (divine) qualities; they need not do anything else.
What is Gayatri? It really means ‘Let me concentrate on That which illumines all’.
~ Gems from Sri Ramana Maharishi, Chapter 4
The Method of Zen Buddhism: Zen Master Huang Po | comparison with the Teachings of Advaita Vedanta and Sri Ramana Maharshi | PDF download The Zen Teaching of Huang Po
This is one of a series of introductory articles – please see the homepage of tomdas.com for more introductory articles. Also see:
Zen Teaching of Instantaneous Awakening by Zen Master Hui Hai
Realisation of Essence of Mind through ‘thoughtlessness’ Zen (Chan) Master Hui Neng – Platform Sutra
Zen (Ch’an) Master Yuanwu: The Sure Way to Enlightenment, The Way of Zen
Tom: Here in this post I have selected some key teachings from Zen Master Huang Po that outline his view of the ‘Path’ to Liberation. In addition to this, I have also selected some specific teachings in order to compare and contrast Huang Po’s teachings to that of Advaita Vedanta and of Sri Ramana Maharshi (see here for some essential teachings of Sri Ramana Maharshi). Whilst I make no claim that these teachings are all exactly the same, in this particular post I have emphasised commonalities rather than differences.
As usual my comments will be in italicised red. To gain the most from this post please explore the related posts that are hyperlinked throughout, such as the one above on the Essential Teachings of Sri Ramana Maharshi. So you can read Huang Po’s zen teachings in their full context, I have provided the complete translation of Huang Po’s teachings as a PDF file below from which the various quotes below are taken:
You can download a copy of ‘The Zen Teaching of Huang Po’ as a PDF here
The first teaching I cite is in fact the entire first teaching given in the above book, The Zen Teaching of Huang Po, teaching 1 from the Chun Chou record. Here is Huang Po:
‘The Master [Huang Po] said to me: All the Buddhas and all sentient beings are nothing but the One Mind, beside which nothing exists. This Mind, which IS without beginning, is unborn (Unborn not in the sense of eternity, for this allows contrast with its opposite; but unborn in the sense that it belongs to no categories admitting of alteration or antithesis) and indestructible.
‘It is not green nor yellow, and has neither form nor appearance. It does not belong to the categories of things which exist or do not exist nor can it be thought of in terms of new or old. It is neither long nor short, big nor small, for it transcends all limits, measures, names, traces, and comparisons. It IS that which you see before you – begin to reason about it and you at once fall into error. It is like the boundless void which cannot be fathomed or measured.
‘The One Mind alone is the Buddha, and there is no distinction between the Buddha and sentient things, but that sentient beings are attached to forms and so seek externally for Buddhahood. By their very seeking they lose it, for that is using the Buddha to seek for the Buddha and using mind to grasp Mind. Even though they do their utmost for a full aeon, they will not be able to attain to it.
‘They do not know that, if they put a stop to conceptual thought and forget their anxiety, the Buddha will appear before them, for this Mind is the Buddha and the Buddha is all living beings. It is not the less for being manifested in ordinary beings, nor is it greater for being manifested in the Buddhas.’
~ the first teaching from The Chun Chou record of Zen Master Huang Po, translated by John Blofeld, as found in the book ‘The Zen Teaching of Huang Po’
Tom’s Comments
Tom comments:
(1) The nature of Mind. All is Mind. Mind is That which is unborn, devoid of objectivity and objective characteristics and is unending/indestructible. It has no form or appearance according to Huang Po, indicating its pure Subjectivity, form and appearance pertaining only to objects. It also cannot be understood. Mind here is equivalent to Sri Ramana Maharshi’s concept of the Self. The implication of this is that it is something you already ‘have’ and/or already ‘are’. Huang Po writes:
‘This Mind, which IS without beginning, is unborn and indestructible. It is not green nor yellow, and has neither form nor appearance‘
Compare this with Shankara writing in Vivekachudamani, a major text in the Advaita Vedanta tradition:
‘254. That which is beyond caste and creed, family and lineage; devoid of name and form, merit and demerit; transcending space, time and sense-object – that Brahman art thou.‘
More quotes like this can be found here: Shankara: How to Meditate for Self-Realisation
In teaching number 8 from this same text, the Chun Chou record, Huang Po states the following, confirming the lack of objects in Buddha-Mind:
‘Our original Buddha-Nature is, in highest truth, devoid of any atom of objectivity. It is void, omnipresent, silent, pure; it is glorious and mysterious peaceful joy – and that is all’
In teaching number 6 Huang Po states that Mind has nothing to do with conceptual thought (ie. the intellect) and it has nothing to do with forms:
‘This Mind is no mind of conceptual thought and it is completely detached from form‘
We see this in echoed in Shankara’s Vivekachudamani here, where he describes the Absolute as being distinct from the Universe/Maya (Maya means the illusion of the world, also known as duality):
‘261. That which is free from duality; which is infinite and indestructible; distinct from the universe and Maya, supreme, eternal; which is undying Bliss; taintless – that Brahman art thou‘
And from teaching number 2 Huang Po says:
‘The Mind IS the Buddha, nor are there any other Buddhas or any other mind. It is bright and spotless as the void, having no form or appearance whatever.’
From teaching 18 Huang Po says:
‘the real Mind as formless and neither coming nor going; his nature as something neither commencing at his birth nor perishing at his death, but as whole and motionless in its very depths’
And from teaching 22 of Wan Ling record Huang Po says (capitalisation present in the original translation):
‘NO BODIES AND NO MINDS – that is the Way of the Buddhas!‘
(2) Mind vs sentient beings (Self vs jiva): All is Mind, BUT Huang Po points out a very important distinction: when Mind seeks externally in forms, ie. when the mind goes out towards objects/objective phenomena, that characterises ‘sentient beings’, meaning jivas or apparent individual people. So we can see that the term ‘sentient being’ roughly translates as ‘jiva’ (apparent individual people). Huang Po writes ‘sentient beings are attached to forms and so seek externally for Buddhahood‘, the implication being that Buddhahood cannot be attained in this way through seeking externally.
This is similar to Sri Ramana Maharshi stating In Day by Day with Bhagavan:
‘The mind turned inwards is the Self; turned outwards, it becomes the ego and all the world’
Similarly the great Advaita text Yoga Vasishta states:
‘Consciousness which is undivided imagines to itself desirable objects and runs after them. It is then known as the mind.’
and
‘After knowing that by which you know this (world) turn the mind inward and then you will see clearly (i.e. realize) the effulgence of the Self.’
and
‘O Rama, the mind has, by its own activity, bound itself; when it is calm it is free.’
Similarly Huang Po states in teaching 5:
‘You students of the Way who do not awake to this in your own minds, and who are attached to appearances or who seek for something objective outside your own minds, have all turned your backs on the Way’
Again, Huang Po admonishes seeking Buddhahood/liberation externally via objective phenomena.
(3) Ego cannot know Mind or Self: John Blofeld capitalises the ‘M’ in Mind in some places and leaves it uncapitalised when it is referring to ego-mind: Huang Po says ‘By their very seeking they lose it, for that is using the Buddha to seek for the Buddha and using mind to grasp Mind’, meaning Mind cannot be known by mind, or Self cannot be known by ego/mind/jiva (a person).
In the Wan Ling record, Huang Po states in teaching 18:
‘It cannot be reached with the body nor sought with the mind. All sentient beings ARE ALREADY of one form with Bodhi [Tom: Bodhi means Knowledge or liberation/enlightenment]‘
Similarly, Shankara in Vivekachudamani states the Absolute (Brahman) cannot be known with the Mind or intellect (Buddhi):
‘256. That which is untouched by the sixfold wave; meditated upon by the Yogi’s heart, but not grasped by the sense-organs; which the Buddhi [intellect] cannot know; and which is unimpeachable – that Brahman art thou’
(4) The remedy is to end all thoughts (by knowing your true nature): What is the remedy? Huang Po says ‘Put a stop to conceptual thoughts and forget ones anxieties’. How to do this is not explained in this teaching. However, if all is one already, why the need to do this at all? Why not just allow things to be as they are? Why the need to stop thoughts? The reason is that only then does Buddha reveal himself as Mind (or Self). Otherwise, if thoughts are not stopped, the illusion of being a ‘sentient being’ (ie. the illusion of being a jiva, ie. an apparent individual person with an apparent individual and separate consciousness) continues unabated and unchallenged. This ignorance must be removed. When divested of its objectivity and seeming multiplicity, only then does Mind or Buddha or Self or God reveal itself as Self, only then does illusion cease and suffering end and unity and absolute love fully shine.
Amritabindu Upanishad, verse 5 states:
‘The mind should be prevented from functioning, until it dissolves itself in the heart. This is Jnana [Tom: knowledge (of our true nature)], this is Dhyana [Tom: meditation (on our true nature)], the rest is all mere concoction of untruth.’
In teaching 23 of the Wan Ling record, Huang Po answers a question:
Q: If I follow this Way, and refrain from intellectual processes and conceptual thinking, shall I be
certain of attaining the goal?
A: Such non-intellection IS following the Way!
Also see Ramana Maharshi: The Self is realised when thoughts subside
We see this unambiguous teaching of needing to stop ALL thoughts given repeatedly by Huang Po. See here from teaching 23 of the Wan Ling record in which Huang Po explains further the method of liberation, explaining how thoughts create karma and the entire world/universe (or 3 worlds of samsara, see below):
Were you now to practice keeping your minds motionless at all times, whether walking, standing, sitting or lying; concentrating entirely upon the goal of no thought-creation, no duality, no reliance on others and no attachments; just allowing all things to take their course the whole day long, as though you were too ill to bother; unknown to the world; innocent of any urge to be known or unknown to others; with your minds like blocks of stone that mend no holes – then all the Dharmas [Tom: teachings] would penetrate your understanding through and through. In a little while you would find yourselves firmly unattached. Thus, for the first time in your lives, you would discover your reactions to phenomena decreasing and, ultimately, you would pass beyond the Triple World; and people would say that a Buddha had appeared in the world. Pure and passionless knowledge [Enlightenment] implies putting an end to the ceaseless flow of thoughts and images, for in that way you stop creating the karma that leads to rebirth – whether as gods or men or as sufferers in hell [Tom: this refers to ending the ‘triple world’ of suffering of (1) gods in heaven, (2) men on earth and (3) sufferers in hell].
Once every sort of mental process has ceased, not a particle of karma is formed. Then, even in this life, your minds and bodies become those of a being completely liberated. Supposing that this does not result in freeing you immediately from further rebirths, at the very least you will be assured of rebirth in accordance with your own wishes. The sutra declares: ‘Bodhisattvas are re-embodied into whatsoever forms they desire.’ But were they suddenly to lose the power of keeping their minds free from conceptual thought, attachment to form would drag them back into the phenomenal world, and each of those forms would create for them a demon’s karma!
Contrast this with Sri Ramana Maharshi himself writing in his poem Atma Vidya (Self-Knowledge), verse 5, in which he recommends stilling the mind completely in order to end karma and rebirth, ie to end samsara and suffering:
5. For loosening karma’s bonds and ending births,
This path is easier than all other paths.
Abide in stillness, without any stir
Of tongue, mind, body. And behold
The effulgence of the Self within;
The experience of Eternity; absence
Of all fear; the ocean vast of Bliss.
And Sri Ramana also writes in ‘Who Am I?’ in his answer to question 23 that the purpose of teaching is only to silence thoughts but discovering the Self, which is analogous to Huang Po saying end any and all conceptual thoughts and discover your true nature as Mind:
‘All the texts say that in order to gain liberation one should render the mind quiescent; therefore their conclusive teaching is that the mind should be rendered quiescent; once this has been understood there is no need for endless reading. In order to quieten the mind one has only to inquire within oneself what one’s Self is; how could this search be done in books?’
And here are some more teachings from Sri Ramana on the role of stilling thoughts:
True wealth is but the gracious silence of steady, unswerving Siva-awareness. This bright, rare treasure can be gained only by those who earnestly strive for extinction of all thoughts.
Sri Ramana Maharshi, Guru Vachaka Kovai, verse 1066
When all thoughts cease, including thought of God, this thought-free state, this Pure Awareness
Sri Ramana Maharshi, Guru Vachaka Kovai, verse 1207
Be still. Apart from this the mind has no task to do or thought to think
Sri Ramana Maharshi, Guru Vachaka Kovai, verse 773
If you remain still, without paying attention to this, without paying attention to that, and without paying attention to anything at all, you will, simply through your powerful attention to being, become the reality, the vast eye, the unbounded space of consciousness.
Sri Ramana Maharshi, Guru Vachaka Kovai, verse 647
Because that state is taught by silence, and also because it is attained by remaining in silence, it is called silence. The sage is in silence always, even when he speaks.
Sri Ramana Maharshi, Sri Ramana Paravidyopanishad, verse 539
Further teachings on this by Huang Po from the Wan Ling record:
All phenomena cease in liberation/nirvana
In teaching 24 of the Wan Ling record Huang Po states all the 3 worlds of hell, earth and heaven will end in liberation:
‘For you also the Three Worlds [Tom: Trailoka – (1) hell – the world of desire, kamaloka, (2) earth – the world of form, rupaloka, and (3) heaven – the formless realm of heavenly beings, arupaloka; sometimes referred to as the 3 worlds of desire, form and formlessness] will vanish if you can reach the state beyond thought. On the other hand, if you still cling to the notion that something, even if it be as small as the hundredth part of a grain, might exist objectively, then even a perfect mastery of the entire Mahayana Canon will fail to give you victory over the Three Worlds. Only when every one of those tiny fragments [of the world or universe] is seen to be nothing can the Mahayana achieve this victory for you.’
Compare with Sri Ramana Maharshi as he writes in ‘Who Am I?’ in his response to Question 7:
‘When the mind, which is the cause of all cognition and of all actions, becomes quiescent, the world will disappear.’
Know your true nature
Later we will see Huang Po state all we have to do is awake to Mind, or as I sometimes say, awake to what we Really Are. This is similar to Sri Ramana Maharshi emphasising knowing Self rather than ending all thoughts. This is from teaching 2 of the Chun Chou record of Huang Po:
‘Only awake to the One Mind, and there is nothing whatsoever [more] to be attained.’
Here in teaching 26 of the Wan Ling record, Huang Po explains more on how to realise your true nature:
Q: How, then, does a man accomplish this comprehension of his own Mind?
A: That which asked the question IS your own Mind [Tom: ie. you are the Mind/Self] but if you were to remain quiescent and to refrain from the smallest mental activity, its substance would be seen as a void [Tom: ie. devoid of objects] – you would find it formless, occupying no point in space and falling neither into the category of existence nor into that of non-existence. Because it is imperceptible Bodhidharma said: ‘Mind, which is our real nature [Tom; Here Huang Po confirms Mind is in fact the same as our real or true nature], is the unbegotten and indestructible womb [Tom: womb, ie. The Source, or the source of all phenomena or creation is Mind]; in response to circumstances, it transforms itself into phenomena [Tom: ie. Mind creates all phenomena]….Every one of the sentient beings [Tom: ie. Jivas] bound to the wheel of alternating life and death is re-created from the karma of his own desires! [Tom: ie. the illusion of samsara, the cycle of repeated birth, death and suffering experienced by the illusionary jiva/ego/person is created by our own desires, which is turn is born from ignorance of our true nature!]… We can see from this that every sort of dharma [Tom: note the use of a Sanskrit term here by Huang Po – dharma here means any phenomenal arising or ‘thing’, or Dharma can also mean teaching, meaning that every teaching or thing is just a creation of the mind] is but a creation of Mind. And all kinds of beings – humans, devas, sufferers in hell, asuras and all comprised within the six forms of life – each one of them is Mind-created [Tom: here it is clear that Huang Po is stating all phenomena are mind-created]. If only you would learn how to achieve a state of non-intellection [Tom: ie. no thoughts], immediately the chain of causation would snap…Chih Kung says: ‘Our bodies are the creations of our own minds.’ [Tom: ie. the above teachings tell us the body mind and world are all projections of Mind only] But how can one expect to gain such knowledge from books? If only you could comprehend the nature of your own Mind and put an end to discriminatory thought, there would naturally be no room for even a grain of error to arise. [Tom: the emphasis is on genuine Self-knowledge through cessation of mental activity and not book-knowledge]‘
Your True Nature
Still from teaching 26 of the Wan Ling record, Huang Po says:
‘Your true nature is something never lost to you even in moments of delusion, nor is it gained at the moment of Enlightenment [Tom: ie. Analogous to the Self in Vedanta]. It is the Nature of the Bhutatathata [Tom: Bhutatathata, this means the Unitary Substratum of Being or Isness/Thusness as opposed to the multiplicity of objective phenomena]. In it is neither delusion nor right understanding [Tom: both of which are of the ego-mind or thought]. It fills the Void everywhere and is intrinsically of the substance of the One Mind. How, then, can your mind-created objects exist outside the Void? The Void is fundamentally without spatial dimensions, passions, activities, delusions or right understanding. You must clearly understand that in it there are no things, no men and no Buddhas; for this Void contains not the smallest hairs-breadth of anything that can be viewed spatially; it depends on nothing and is attached to nothing. It is all-pervading, spotless beauty; it is the self-existent and uncreated Absolute. Then how can it even be a matter for discussion that the REAL Buddha has no mouth and preaches no Dharma, or that REAL hearing requires no ears, for who could hear it? [Tom: for there is no body, mind, world, thoughts or things in the real Buddha, so Buddha has no mouth and no ears, ie. in reality there is no mouth, ears, bodies, etc.] Ah, it is a jewel beyond all price!’
Conclusion
Here is a brief summary of some of the key points of Huang Po’s teachings taken from the above quotes:
- Your true nature is Mind.
- Mind is your true nature so it can never be lost (or ‘found’). This is the only Buddha there is, your True Nature. This is already what you ARE.
- Mind is unborn and cannot be destroyed. It has no form and no objective qualities. It is unchanging and still/silent.
- All we need to do is awaken to our own Mind
- Mind is Liberation. It cannot be found outside yourself.
- Mind is devoid of thought and completely detached from forms.
- Mind cannot be understood or known by thought, and it is beyond the duality of knowing or not-knowing, ‘…that REAL hearing requires no ears…’
- Mind creates or projects the body, thoughts and world and in this then roams among these objective phenomena that it itself has created, experiencing pleasure and pain and repeated births and deaths (samsara) according to desire/karma. The implication is that this is due to ignorance or lack of knowing our true nature.
- ‘You must clearly understand’ that in the true Buddha/ in true liberation there is no body, no mind, no world, no people, no things, no forms and nothing that has any spatial dimension whatsoever.
- Implied in the above 2 points is that thoughts/Mind projects the multiplicity of the universe, including the various bodies and minds and things, and these thought-phenomena are impurities born of delusion/ignorance. ie. it is implied that through ignorance of one’s true nature that samsara is projected.
- Even the idea of a teacher, a teaching or a seeker who could listen to the teaching is illusion – ‘the REAL Buddha has no mouth and preaches no Dharma…’.
- The true Buddha or Mind is not a ‘nihilistic ‘nothing’, it is (and I quote) ‘spotless beauty’ or ‘a jewel beyond all price’ or ‘a glorious mysterious peaceful joy’.
- Mind or True Buddha Nature cannot be known by thought, by a person/ego/sentient being, through the body, or by practices relating to the objective sphere. Seeking outside of yourself and attachment to objects is to abandon the path.
- You can discover your true nature and thus end this illusion/delusion of samsara. This is by intuiting Mind/True Nature and ending all thoughts.
- Mind divested of all thoughts and spontaneous recognition of Mind is the way to liberation.
All of these points are consistent with the path to realisation as outlined by Sri Ramana Maharshi and Upanishads in my view. There are many other teachings present in the Zen Teaching of Huang Po and I have just selected some that align with the teaching of Sri Ramana Maharshi. Perhaps some of the other teachings do not fully align, or perhaps they are distortions due to the one recording the teachings or due to the translation/translator. Or perhaps not. Regardless, I hope this post has been of interest and is perhaps even inspiring for you.
The method of how to still the mind and stop all conceptual thought/realise the One Mind (ie. the practice of Self-Enquiry) is not explained more fully by Huang Po, but in my view the method of self-enquiry is implied – ie. knowing Mind directly through Mind (and not through body, sense organs, mentation or thought), ending all karma/ phenomena/ thoughts, how going out towards objects/arising phenomena blocks the way and describing Mind as One, as formless and as essentially without time, space, dimension, and ultimately and essentially distinct from form/objects – all these together imply direct intuition of Self via Self-Enquiry as opposed to going out towards objective phenomena (when Huang Po denies practices, he is denying practice that involve objective phenomena, in my interpretation at least).
If you want to read more of Huang Po’s method to liberation please see teaching 26 of the Wan Ling record which expands further upon this method – I have already partially quoted from this teaching above. Perhaps I will write a post more about this in the future if you want me to. Do let me know your thoughts in the comments below. For a summary of the essential teachings of Sri Ramana Maharshi which explain in more detail the path to liberation, please see here.
Wishing you all a very Happy New Year!
I will leave you the quote from teaching 22 of the Wan Ling record, perhaps the most radical of the teachings I found, in which Huang Po says, with the capitalisation being present in the original translation:
‘NO BODIES AND NO MINDS – that is the Way of the Buddhas!‘
Also see: Recommended Reading: Books for Enlightenment, Liberation and Self-Realisation
I have also written an article contrasting traditional Buddhism with Vedanta. In this post you will also see references to other posts exploring themes in both these great traditions. Let me know what you think in the comments, best wishes:
Buddhism vs Vedanta | Self vs no-self | Nirvana vs Self-Realisation
Does Sravana alone lead to liberation? Or are Manana and Nididhyasana also required for Self-Realisation or Jnana? Advaita Vedanta | Swami Satchitanandendra Saraswati (SSS) | Shankara Advaita
Sravana means hearing the teachings. Manana means contemplating upon the teachings. Nididhyasana means meditating upon the Self or placing one’s attention onto the Self in order to discover its true nature. Together these three traditionally sum up the method or process of self-realisation according to Vedanta teachings.
However…
1) There are some that say that Sravana alone leads to self-realisation, and that Manana and Nididhyasana are ancilary practices to just remove the blocks and purify/ripen the mind and ready it for Sravana, and that Sravana is the liberating factor.
2) There are some that say Sravana is just an initial teaching to allow Nididhyasana to finally occur and it is Nididhyasana that is the primary sadhana (spiritual practice) that allows liberation to arise.
This is further confounded as there are scriptural verses in support of both of the above visions of the teachings.
eg.
‘Thus only is It realised-when these means, viz. hearing, reflection and meditation, have been gone through. When these three are combined, then only true realisation of the unity of Brahman is accomplished, not otherwise – by hearing alone.’
~ Shankara’s commentary on Brihadaranyaka Upanishad 2.4.5
and seemingly contradicting this is the following:
‘for highly qualified aspirants, [self-] knowledge can arise even from mere listening to the teachings.’
~ Shankara’s commentary of Brahma Sutra 4.1.2
Swami Satchitanandendra Saraswati’s (SSS’s) view on this
Swami Satchitanandendra Saraswati (SSS) in his many books on the teachings of Vedanta and on Shankara’s commentaries makes the following observation, namely that either Sravana, Manana or Nididhyasana can be the direct causes of liberation (ie. direct cause of removing ignorance), depending on the level of maturity of the (apparent) mind of the seeker. For those interested, Sri Ramana Maharshi says the same here, and also goes further to explain how this can be the case and also how both of the above scriptural passages do not actually contradict each other.
Here is SSS writing in the Appendix of his book ‘The Salient Features of Sankara’s Vedanta‘ on page 82:
6. Sravana (study of sacred revelation), Manana (reflective thinking) and Nididhyasana (concentrated contemplation), are all means for realizing Atman. Highly developed souls, however, who can immediately grasp the true meaning of the Vedic teaching, do not stand in need of any additional effort.
Not taking this principle into account is responsible for the divergence of opinion among commentators of Sankara Bhashya [Tom: Shankara’s commentaries] about the relation of Sravana and Nididhyasana. Of these, some aver that Sravana is the principal means and the other two are only ancillary to it; while others insist that nididhyasana is the one means to direct realization and without it mere Sravana would be of no avail.
7. Sravana and the other means [Tom: ie. manana and nididhyasana] are enjoined only in so far as they turn the seeker inwards and direct him to stay his mind on Atman, but the resultant knowledge is no object of any injunction. [Tom: ie. Sravana, manana and nididhyasana all have their intended effect of self-realisation by turning the seeker’s attention towards the Self, but that the Self that is subsequently realised as truth cannot itself be caused or created by any spitirual practice or effort or action, ie. the Self is uncaused and uncreated]
Those who cannot distinguish between the’ effort required for Sravana, etc, and the resultant knowledge in each case, have made it a matter for controversy whether or not ‘srotavyah’ [Tom: lit ‘that which is (to be) heard’, ie. scripture] and similar texts constitute true injunctions. Some of them maintain that these are all injunctions while others insist that they are seemingly injunctions in form but are really statements of fact. Some even think that they are merely eulogistic statements. [Tom: ie. because Shankara says actions or karma cannot lead to liberation or Jnana, there is argument about the ontological status of whether or not the 3 sadhanas of sravana, manana and nididyasana are karmas or not. In truth we should know that the Self is not a product of any action, but that the sadhana is an action that occurs in the phenomenal world of maya, and so if we discern properly between these 2 there is no real conflict.]
8. Manana refers to the type of reasoning suggested by the Sruti itself conducive to experience. Hence the term ‘experience’ here should be understood to mean the supersensuous intuition [Tom: ie. Self knowledge] which results from our enquiry which takes in one sweep the whole field possible of whatever is knowable.
From this the reader has to understand that use might be made of ordinary reasoning also in so far as it is conformable to the reasoning suggested by the Sruti. Advaitins do try to disclose the hollowness of other systems according to the course of reasoning accepted by themselves. But Advaita itself cannot be established by means of pure logical ratiocination. People who are not aware of this fact, often try to apply speculation or inferences based upon partial experiences to Vedanta also. Others condemn all reasoning and affirm that reasoning is of no use in matters taught by the Sruti. So they interpret Sruti according to their own predilection and place their own convictions before seekers as the final Vedantic truth.
9. Nididhyasana is that kind of spiritual discipline by means of which one concentrates one’s mind on the subtle principle, Atman. At the end of this discipline, one becomes conscious of the fact that the mind itself is a superimposition on Atman. Then the mind becomes no mind, that is to say, it is realized essentially as Atman himself.
Q. Tom, if you can, please can you summarise the basic essential teaching in a paragraph? | Advaita | Liberation | Enlightenment
Questioner: Tom, if you can, please can you summarise the basic essential teaching in a paragraph?
Tom: It cannot be fully put into words, but it is something like this: You are actually and already the One Infinite Divine Spirit whose nature is Eternal Happiness and Bliss.
You are not the body-mind at all, and thinking that you are is the prime illusion, or ignorance, that brings all suffering.
In order to discover this Truth (that is already the case, ie. it is a fact), one must turn away from all objective phenomena, including thoughts, feelings, etc, and intuitively go towards the I AM and discover this for oneself. Cultivating a spirit of love, happiness, affection and devotion can be a great help in this endeavor.
The reason we must turn away from all objects is that in attending to various objective phenomena the notion ‘I am the body-mind’ is perpetuated. This is very important to understand and realise. Only when we turn away from objects, either intentionally or spontaneously/by grace, is there a possibility of Self-Realisation. Otherwise we remain trapped in the (false) beliefs ‘I am a body-mind or person’ and ‘the world is real’.
Once we realise the Self, there is no need to integrate this understanding into daily life or anything like that, as Self-realisation is not an understanding for the mind, and in Self-realisation, all duality ceases: there is no entity left to integrate, no understanding or knowledge to integrate, and nothing left to integrate with. There is only the Infinite Blissful Self.
Teachings, such as those that talk about being adverse to the world, and all genuine spiritual teachings in fact, are just there to encourage and facilitate this discovery, and the form the teaching takes depends on the context in which they are given, including where the apparent seeker is at.
It is not about being some block of wood (a body-mind) that is detached and cut off, but about discovering something, the only thing, that is true and real – your True Nature, your Self.
This discovery is truly the most wonderful ‘thing’. (It is not a thing)
This discovery is not for or by the body-mind (or ego) at all, but is ‘by the Self’ so to speak…here words fall short, but poetically we say the Self itself discovers or realises the Self.
Hope that makes sense
Thank you
(much longer than a paragraph, I know!)
Questioner: can you support the above teaching you have given using authoritative quotes from Sri Ramana Maharshi or the Scriptures?
Tom: yes, sure, if you carefully read this article here, you will see all these above points mentioned and backed up by quotes from Sri Ramana Maharshi. The only point not backed up by quotes in that article is about not needing to integrate the teachings after realisation/liberation, for more on that see here. For quotes from the Vedanta scriptures see here.
Best wishes & namaste.
Tom Das 