Tom’s new book ‘O Sri Ramana, The Heart: A Comprehensive Guide to Spiritual Liberation through Advaita, Devotion and the Teachings of Sri Ramana Maharshi‘ is now available here: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0HK6QLNLJ/
In this Satsang, Tom Das returns to the essential teaching of Advaita Vedanta and Ramana Maharshi: the purpose of spiritual life is liberation—the complete cessation of suffering and the discovery of lasting peace, happiness, and fulfilment.
What is liberation, and how can it be attained? Tom explains that liberation is not something you need to acquire in the future. It is your own true nature. The apparent problem is ignorance: we do not yet know ourselves as we truly are. Rather than becoming lost in intellectual questions about how ignorance began, this satsang points directly to the practical question: How can ignorance be removed now?
Through Self-inquiry, or the question “Who am I?”, attention is turned away from changing objects—the body, mind, thoughts, emotions, perceptions, and world—and toward the unchanging subject: the awareness that knows all experience. Tom reads and explores key passages from Who Am I? by Sri Ramana Maharshi, including the teaching that when the mind turns outward, names and forms appear, but when it rests in the Heart, the ever-present Self shines.
This is a clear introduction to the path of Jnana Yoga, non-duality, meditation, surrender, bhakti, and the art of abiding as the Self. Tom also explains why understanding the theory is only the beginning: as with learning tennis, genuine realization requires sincere practice, openness, and a willingness to repeatedly return inward.
The Self is described as Sat-Chit-Ananda: pure being, pure awareness, and uncaused peace or bliss. It is whole, complete, without separation, name, form, limitation, or individuality—Pūrṇa. You are not becoming this; you are recognizing what you have always been.
Relax, do not take the ego too seriously, and gently return to the stillness of your own being.
Please click on this link to find out more about this 4 part series in March 2026. Any tickets purchased using this link will result in Tom receiving some commission:
“The scriptures talk about prarabdha karma only for the purpose of easy understanding of the ignorant“. ~Sri Shankara, Aparokshanubhuti verse 97
“The statement that the jnani retains prarabdha while free from sanchita and agami is only a formal answer to the questions of the ignorant. Of several wives none escapes widowhood when the husband dies; even so, when the doer goes, all three karmas vanish.“ ~ Supplement to the 40 verses on reality, written by Sri Ramana Maharshi
462-3:… it is to convince those fools who entertain a doubt like this, that the Shrutis, from a relative standpoint, hypothesise Prarabdha karma [as existingfor the Jnani] ~Sri Shankara, Vivekachudamani
Traditionally it is said that when one attains liberation, all of that person’s karma is wiped out and so they will not be born again into a future rebirth, thus ending the cycle of samsara (the cycle of birth, experience, suffering, death and rebirth). Here the word karma, which literally means action or doing, refers to the momentum of cause and effect that causes things to happen in our life and in the future, including in future lives (for those who believe in reincarnation).
The question naturally arises, if there is no karma for the jnani (knower of truth or self, ie. one who has realised the Self and thereby attained liberation), how does their body continue to function? And surely there is some karma for the Jnani, for we see some Jnanis experience both good and bad fortunes. Why is this?
For a lower grade of seeker, the explanation is given that while all karmas* are destroyed for the jnani, prarabdha karma* remains. This prarabdha karma is the portion of karma needed to live out the current body’s life, and accounts for the good and bad things that the jnani experiences after self-realisation.
(*In Vedic traditions there are three karmas for the body: Sanchitakarma (the total storehouse of past actions; sanchita means ‘heaped together’ or ‘collected together’), Prarabdhakarma (the specific portion of Sanchita karma currently being experienced by this body in this life; prarabdha means ‘that which has begun’ or ‘that which has already commenced’, more commonly translated as ‘destiny’), and Agami karma (new actions being currently created now that shape your future; agami means ‘that which is coming’ or ‘that which is approaching’ or ‘future’)
The lower grade seeker is naturally satisfied with this answer and (perhaps because they are a lower grade seeker, or perhaps because they have faith in the teacher or teaching), they ask no further questions. They do not ask, how does this come about? How does some principle know to end sanchita and agami karma but continue prarabdha karma? And what is the mechanism by which this occurs? What principle governs this occurrence? Why does this prarabdha continue at all? Isn’t this dualistic, that some karmas are destroyed whilst others are not? And so on. The lower grade seeker simply accepts the teachings, as it gives their mind an explanation which makes sense to them, and the simple mind is often satisfied by mere explanations.
However, to earnest seekers who truly thirst for liberation, the great sages such as Sri Ramana Maharshi and Sri Shankara have said that this is just an explanation for the ignorant who consider the Jnani to be a body-mind entity, and that in truth, there is also no Prarabdha for the Jnani, for the Jnani has no body and sees no body.
We will look at some quotes from both Sri Ramana Maharshi and Sri Shankara that explain this, and also some commentary from Swami Chinmayananda that states the same, as well as teachings from Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj on this topic too.
We will see that the teaching there is no prarabdha karma for the Jnani and that there is no world for the jnani is in fact the traditional teaching of Advaita Vedanta that has been taught for centuries as per Shankara’s writings, and as per the writings of various others down the ages, and that it is only relatively recently, perhaps in the last 40-50 years or so, that a newer intellectualised form of Vedanta (that claims to be Traditional Advaita) has become more popular – Neo-Advaita it could be called.
Questioner: I have a question, if Ajnanam (ignorance) is removed* that means the whole source of Samsara is removed. In such a case why should the Jnani (realised sage) even have Prarabdha Karma*. That also should not be present right?
Tom: In Truth, there is not even any such thing as a Jnani (meaning a person or body-mind that is ‘realised’) – there is only That Objectless Subject-Self-Brahman. So there is no karma whatsoever for ‘a Jnani’ (a Jnani here meaning the Self). The self has no duality, and no karma. Karma is born of ignorance and is maya, unreal. They are one and the same – karma and ignorance – or one comes from the other. This is also what is taught in the Upanishads (eg. Adhyatma Upanishad) and by Shankara, both in his commentaries and in texts such as Vivekachudamani.
*Removal of ignorance is the same as Self-Realisation, so say the Upanishads, so says Shankara.
**Prarabdha Karma is the portion of karma that, according to the Vedas, gives rise to the body in the present birth and will play out and determine the specifics of the present life. A simple translation could be ‘destiny’ or ‘what is destined for this life’. The idea of this question is that, for example, if you have ‘been bad’ in the past and have accumulated negative karma as a result, even though you have realised the Self, this negative karma may continue and cause suffering for you even after Self-Realisation. The Upanishads are clear that all karmas and all suffering end upon Self-Realisation, so one need not even fear the negative results of one’s past actions if one realises the Self.
We can see that even the notion of a body-mind entity, such as a ‘great sage’, is itself a fiction, for there is only the bodiless self, in which no body, mind or world ever appeared or ever could appear. All appearances are only due to ignorance, also known as ego or mind. In self-realisation, ignorance was seen to never have actually ever occurred, and the subsequent projection of the body mind and world was similarly never seen to have occurred. This is the doctrine of ajata vada, or the doctrine of no-creation, meaning nothing ever happened, or appeared to happen.
For the mind, this teaching makes no sense, for there is no worldly analogy that can explain non-duality or the Self, but this is what the higher teachings in the scriptures try to convey.
Sri Ramana Maharshi
Sri Ramana himself writes, in the supplement to 40 verses on reality the following:
The statement that the jnani retains prarabdha while free from sanchita and agami is only a formal answer to the questions of the ignorant. Of several wives none escapes widowhood when the husband dies; even so, when the doer goes, all three karmas vanish.
~ Supplement to the 40 verses on reality, written by Sri Ramana Maharshi
We can clearly see that Sri Ramana is stating that all three karmas go for the jnani, and that the idea that prarabdha continues is a ‘formal answer to questions of the ignorant’, meaning it is a lower teaching for the masses who are either not genuinely seeking liberation, or in whom an intense conscious desire for liberation has not yet arisen.
But doesn’t the jnani see the world, but see it as illusion?
However some argue that the jnani still perceives the body, mind and world, but the prarabdha karma does not affect them, and this is what is meant by ‘there is no prarabdha for the sage’. Or they say that the body mind and world, together with its prarabdha, continue, but the Jnani sees them as being illusory. Sri Ramana writes the following to discount this view. Later we will also see that Sri Shankara makes the same point:
The Self-Realised Sage knows not whether the transient body comes and stays, or dies and leaves, even as a senseless drunkard knows not what happens to his clothes.
~ Guru Vachaka Kovai, Sri Bhagavan 24 (a verse written by Sri Ramana Maharshi)
We can see here that Sri Ramana is refuting the idea that the jnani even knows what is happening to the body.
Are we not just confusing levels here?
Some further argue that whilst on the absolute level (paramarthika or the level of the highest truth) the body mind and world do not exist, but relatively speaking (vyavaharika, or on the transactional relative level) they, together with prarabdha karma, continue.
This would mean there are 2 levels of the self and that the Self is non-dualistic. Sri Ramana clears up all of these in his teachings however, stating that for the jnani, there is only the one level – the truth ie. paramarthika – vyvaharika only being apparently existent for the ajnani.
The following verses are from Sri Ramana’s teachings in the text Guru Vachaka Kovai:
21. There is no mind, nor body, nor world, nor any one called a soul; the One pure Reality alone exists, without a second, unborn and unchanging, abiding in utter Peace.
313. As one that is profoundly alseep in a carriage in unaware of the varying states of the carriage – (its running, stoppages and unyoking of horses [Tom: – ie. the 3 states of waking, dream and deep sleep]) – so the one in the Transcendental State is unaware of the varying states of the body.
We see the same teachings of Sri Ramana recorded in the text Paravidyopanishad:
39. Unless and until the mind becomes utterly extinct, these three states will continue to prevail. When the mind becomes extinguished the supreme state is won, wherein this world once and for all ceases to appear.
The state of liberation is often called ‘sahaja samadhi’. Sahaja means natural or easy, so this refers to the effortless state of self-realisation. In Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi, talk 82, Sri Ramana is recorded as saying the following:
Just as a passenger when asleep in a carriage is unaware of the motion, the halting or the unharnessing of the horses, so also a Jnani in sahaja samadhi is unaware of the happenings, waking, dream and deep sleep.
…In sahaja samadhi the activities, vital and mental, and the three states are destroyed, never to reappear. However, others notice the Jnani active e.g., eating, talking, moving etc. He is not himself aware of these activities, whereas others are aware of his activities. They pertain to his body and not to his Real Self, swarupa. For himself, he is like the sleeping passenger – or like a child interrupted from sound sleep and fed, being unaware of it
Sri Ramana himself also writes in ‘Who Am I?’:
Just as the knowledge of the rope, which is the base, will not be obtained unless the knowledge of the snake, the superimposition, goes, so the realization of Self, which is the base, will not be obtained unless the perception of the world which is a superimposition, ceases.
And also from Sri Ramana’s ‘Who Am I?’:
Therefore, when the world appears, Self will not appear; and when Self appears, the world will not appear
But doesn’t Sri Ramana Maharshi say that the jnani is in the state of Sahaja Samadhi, the natural state of liberation in which the sage is naturally and effortlessly unattached to the phenomenal world of objects (‘sahaja’ means ‘natural’ or ‘easy’)? Yes, he does, but this too is a lower teaching. See what he says in his higher teachings:
‘So also a Jnani in sahaja samadhi is unaware of the happenings, waking, dream and deep sleep…In sahaja samadhi the activities, vital and mental, and the three states are destroyed, never to reappear.
However, others notice the Jnani active e.g., eating, talking, moving etc. He is not himself aware of these activities, whereas others are aware of his activities. They pertain to his body and not to his Real Self, swarupa.For himself, he is like the sleeping passenger – or like a child interrupted from sound sleep and fed, being unaware of it. The child says the next day that he did not take milk at all and that he went to sleep without it. Even when reminded he cannot be convinced. So also in sahaja samadhi.’
~ Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi, Talk 82
Nirvikalpa Samadhi
What is called Sahaja Samadhi, the natural state of the jnani, is also called Sahaja Nirvikalpa Samadhi or just Nirvikalpa Samadhi. These are synonyms for self-knowledge or self-realisation or liberation. Sri Ramana Maharshi wrote in his translation of the classical advaita text Drig Drishya Viveka:
‘being completely absorbed in the Bliss experienced by the realization of the Self is nirvikalpa samadhi‘
Sri Ramana Maharshi wrote a summary of Shankara’s teachings in an essay he wrote which you can find here, in which he wrote the following:
…the natural and changeless state of Nirvikalpa samadhi is produced by unswerving vigilant concentration on the Self, ceaseless like the unbroken flow of oil. This readily and spontaneously yields that direct, immediate, unobstructed, and Universal perception of Brahman, which is at once knowledge and experience and which transcends time and space.This perception is Self-realisation. Achieving It cuts the knot of the Heart. The false delusions of ignorance, the vicious and age-long tendencies of the mind which constitute this knot are destroyed. All doubts are dispelled and the bondage of karma is severed.
But don’t we see the Jnani/Sage eating, drinking, talking, walking, etc…?
Yes, the ignorant will see the sage as a body-mind entity (whereas the Sage is really just the objectless worldless Self, Pure consciousness), and this ‘sage’ or ‘jnani’ will continue to act in the world as before, participate in the world and ‘see’ the world, but this is the exerience of the ignorant, not the direct experience of the realised Jnani (who is not truly a body-mind entity at all, being just Pure Objectless Consciousness or Spirit, also known as Nirguna Brahman).
See here and here for more on this teaching. Also see the section from Nisargadatta Maharaj below as he explains this too.
Sri Shankara
Now let us see what Sri Shankara says about this – of course we will see that he says exactly the same. Let us first see what he says about prarabdha karma and the jnani. The following verses are taken from his text Aparokshanubhuti, which means ‘unmediated (or direct) experience’. This is an extremely popular and influential traditional Advaita Vedanta text, written by Sri Shankara, that has been used as a manual for teaching Vedanta for over 1400 years, and is a well established part of the Advaita Vedanta tradition:
90. Even when self-knowledge has arisen, prarabdha karma does not cease – so it is said in the scriptures – this [claim] is now being refuted
Shankara first acknowledges this teaching that prarabdha karma continues for the jnani is given in the scriptures. He will now, in the next few verses, refute this teaching, the implication being that it is a lower teaching for the ignorant one, something that is explicitly stated later on in verse 97.
91. Upon the arising of true self-knowledge, prarabdha karma does not exist at all, because the body and all associated things [ie. all other phenomena] do not exist, just as a dream upon waking [no longer appears or exists]
We can see that Shankara is explaining that as the body and all associated things do not exist in genuine self-realisation, how can prarabdha karma exist? Prarabdha needs a body, and if there is no body or any other phenomena, how can there be prarabdha? He then gives the similie of a dream disappearing upon waking, which means that just as a dream ends upon waking, the body-mind-world end upon waking up to Self-Realisation.
In verses 92 and 93 Shankara gives further reasons or arguments why there is no prarabdha karma for the jnani:
92. Karma performed in a previous birth is called prarabdha, but since there is no other birth for the [self-realised] person, that prarabdha does not exist at any time.
Shankara’s argument here is that prarabdha karma comes from previous births. However, for a self-realised person, there have never been any births, ie. ajata (which means no birth or no creation), so how can there be prarabdha karma at any time for a jnani? In fact, there is no time or space for the jnani at all, so how can there be any karma for karma depends on space and time?
93. Just as the dream-body is a superimposition [false projection or illusion], so indeed is this body [physical body in the waking state] too. For something that is superimposed [ie. Illusory or unreal], how can there be birth? And in the absence of birth, how can that [prarabdha karma] exist?
Shankara is here stating in verse 93 of Aparokshanubhuti that the body in the waking state is an illusory projection or superimposition (adhyasa). This implication is that the body is ultimately unreal, having never really been born, and so there can be no prarabdha karma for the unreal.
Now we should be careful here as others interpret this verse slightly differently. They say that this verse merely states that the body continues to appear like a dream for the jnani, but the jnani knows the body, which continues to appear, to be an unreal superimposition on the self. They go on to say that ‘no prarabdha karma’ simply means that the jnani is unaffected by the prarabdha karma which continues to appear but just doesn’t touch the jnani or self. This is clearly a wrong interpretation, for it discounts the previous verse which states the world disappear for the jnani ‘like a dream upon waking’, and the next few verses make it very clear what Shankara’s intended meaning is.
As always, it is important not to cherry pick selected verses but to read the verses in context to understand their true meaning. Let us see the next few verses that make the teaching and intended meaning very clear:
94. Vedanta declares ignorance to be the material cause of the phenomenal world, just as clay is [the material cause] of a pot. When that ignorance is destroyed, where can the world be?
Shankara here is definitively and clearly stating, in classical rhetorical language, that (1) ignorance is the material cause of the world and (2) therefore when ignorance goes, so does the world. In the next two verses Shankara will emphasise this very point so that the meaning cannot be misunderstood:
95. Just as one, by ignoring the rope, one sees a snake due to delusion [ignorance], so too, not knowing the truth, the deluded [ignorant] one perceives the world.
Here we have another definitive statement from Shankara that the world is seen due to delusion, which is a synonym for ignorance. Note that the rope is equated with the worldless self, and the rope is equated with the world, projected and perceived through ignorance.
Doesn’t the jnani still perceive the world, but they perceive the world as self?
Some say that this means that the ignorant one perceives the world as world, whereas the jnani perceives the world as self. However it should be clear that this is not the intended meaning of these verses. If it were, Shankara would clearly say so, but instead he makes it clear that the metaphor to be used here is that of the rope and the snake, and that just as the snake disappears on apprehension of the rope, the world disappears (or, more accurately, the world was seen to have never appeared in the first place); see here in the next verse, verse 96:
96. When the rope is correctly known as the rope, the delusion of the snake does not remain; likewise, when the substratum [ie. self] is known, the phenomenal world vanishes into nothingness
Here we have Shankara stating what he has already stated rhetorically in verse 94.
Now Shankara will explain that the teaching that prarabdha karma continues for the Jnani is merely a lower teaching for the ignorant mind to more easily understand the jnani:
97. Since the body itself belongs to the phenomenal world [which disappears upon self-knowledge], how can prarabdha persist [with self-realisation]? Sruti [the revealed scriptures, ie. Vedas and Upanishads] talks about prarabdha only for the purpose of easy understanding of the ignorant.
Shankara repeatedly states that the relative world only appears due to ignorance
All this world is unreal and proceeds from ignorance, because it is seen only by one afflicted by ignorance ~Sri Shankara, Upadesa Sahasri 17.20
Having thus effaced the triad consisting of dreamless sleep, dream and waking experience, one crosses over the great sea of ignorance. For he is then established in his own Self, void of all attributes of the empirical world, pure, enlightened, and by his very nature liberated. ~Sri Shankara, Upadesa Sahasri 17.58
Because I am without an eye, I have no sight*. As I have no ear either, how could I have hearing*? As I have no voice I can have no speech. As I have no mind, how could I have thought? There cannot be action on the part of that which does not have life force (prana). There cannot be knowership on the part of that which has no mind. Neither can there be knowledge or ignorance on the part of me who am the Light of Pure Consciousness ~Sri Shankara, Upadesa Sahasri 13.1, 13.2
*(Shankara is quoting from Brihadaranyaka Upanishad 3.8.8)
Just as a dream is [apparently] real and valid until one awakens from it, so are the experiences of the waking state, such as identity with the body and the authoritativeness of perception and the other means of knowledge, real and valid until knowledge of the Self ~Sri Shankara, Upadesa Sahasri 11.5
Of me who am ever-liberated, pure, rock-firm and changeless, not subject to modification, immortal, indestructible and so without a body, there is no hunger or thirst or grief or delusion or old age or death. For I am bodiless… ~Sri Shankara, Upadesa Sahasri 13.3-13.4
Shankara’s Vivekachudamani
We also see this same teaching in Shankara’s Vivekachudamani, another extremely important text in Traditional Advaita Vedanta. It is arguably the single most important text historically and traditionally speaking in terms of its influence on Advaita Vedanta tradition for the last 1400 years, and it has been used as a manual of Advaita by countless sages who have also commended its teachings. Sri Ramana translated the entire work (click on link to view the translation) and also wrote an introduction to it which summarises the Advaita Vedanta teachings of Shankara, which you can view here:
460. Prarabdha work can be maintained only so long as one lives identified with the body. But no one admits that the man of realisation ever identifies himself with the body. Hence Prarabdha work should be rejected in his case.
And again, Shankara in his text Vivekachudamani maintains that the notion that the notion of prarabda karma is only taught in the scriptures to ‘convince fools’ who, erroneously thinking the Jnani to be a body-mind entity, ask questions like ‘how does the body of the jnani live?’:
462-3. “If the effects of ignorance are destroyed with their root by knowledge, then how does the body live?” – it is to convince those fools who entertain a doubt like this, that the Shrutis, from a relative standpoint, hypothesise Prarabdha karma, but not for proving the reality of the body etc., of the man of realisation.
ie. Shankara is stating the notion of prarabdha karma is only to satisfy the minds of ‘fools’ and not to show that the jnani actually has a body or sees a world.
This verse is actually very telling, as Shankara’s first point is that ‘the effects of ignorance are destroyed with their root by knowledge’. The effects of ignorance refer to all arising phenomena, including the body and mind and world, also known as duality. The next logical question for a ‘fool’ is ‘how therefore does the body live if there is no perception of a body or a world?’. It is a question for a ‘fool’ as one with a sharper intellect will realise that the teaching is saying that the body and mind are mere projections of ignorance and were never real or existent in the first instance, so this is not something that needs to be worried about or explained.
The ‘fool’, however, attached to the notion that bodies and minds and the world are all real and existent, not realising the import of the teaching, asks the question ‘how does the body live?’.
Now, if Shankara meant by’ the effects of ignorance are destroyed’ that the perception of the world continues for the jnani but the jnani is no longer attached to these perceptions, then the question ‘how does the body live’ does not arise, for the body would just carry on living according to its prarabdha.
So here in this verse, if we analyse it properly, we can see, yet again, what Shankara’s intended teaching is and what it is not.
No duality in non-duality
After these above verses, the text Vivekachudamani by Sri Shankara then goes on to say that there is only the non-dual Brahman, in which there is no duality whatsoever. Repetition is used to drum this point home, ensuring the reader understands there is no change, no activity (karma), it is homogenous (with no variation), it has no parts or aspects to it, etc, etc:
464. There is only Brahman, the One without a second, infinite, without beginning or end, transcendent and changeless; there is no duality whatsoever in It.
465. There is only Brahman, the One without a second, the Essence of Existence, Knowledge and Eternal Bliss, and devoid of activity; there is no duality whatsoever in It.
466. There is only Brahman, the One without a second, which is within all, homogeneous, infinite, endless, and all-pervading; there is no duality whatsoever in It.
467. There is only Brahman, the One without a second, which is neither to be shunned nor taken up nor accepted, and which is without any support, there is no duality whatsoever in It.
468. There is only Brahman, the One without a second, beyond attributes, without parts, subtle, absolute and taintless; there is no duality whatsoever in It.
469. There is only Brahman, the One without a second, whose real nature is incomprehensible, and which is beyond the range of mind and speech; there is no duality whatsoever in It.
470. There is only Brahman, the One without a second, the Reality, the One without a second, the Reality, effulgent, self-existent, pure, intelligent, and unlike anything finite; there is no duality whatsoever in It.
The ego-mind projects the entire world
In Vivekachudamani, Shankara explains that the entire phenomenal world is a projection of the ego-mind or ignorance:
169. There is no Ignorance (Avidya) outside the mind. The mind alone is Avidya (ignorance), the cause of the bondage of transmigration. When that is destroyed, all else is destroyed, and when it is manifested, everything else is manifested.
170. In dreams, when there is no actual contact with the external world, the mind alone creates the whole universe consisting of the experiencer etc. Similarly in the waking state also; there is no difference. Therefore all this (phenomenal universe) is the projection of the mind.
180. Hence sages who have fathomed its secret have designated the mind as Avidya or ignorance, by which alone the universe is moved to and fro, like masses of clouds by the wind.
Some modern readers may think that Shankara is merely speaking of the conceptual world, our ideas or the labelling of concepts and objects, but if you read his writings it becomes clear Shankara is actually stating the the mind literally creates the world. It would take too long to go into this here, but instead you can see this this article herewhere this is explained in depth – more quotes are given and you will also see teachings from Sri Gaudapada and Sri Suresvara (Shankara’s student) and otheres on this same topic
Swami Chinmayananda
In his commentary on the verse 97 of Shankara’s Aparokshanubhuti, Swami Chinmayananada writes the following:
The BMI, PFT and the OET* together constitute the prapanca [Tom: prapanca, this is the world often used in the scriptures to denote ‘the world’], the ever changing perishable phenomenal world. So where the Reality of the Atman is apprehended, how can the body which is a part of the phenomenal world come to exist? I the dusk you mistook the rope to be the snake and the post for the ghost. When you switch on the torch and then realise the post will you still say that you are seeing the smile of the welcoming ghost in the post, even though you accept that the ghost has disappeared? With the disappearance of the ghost, everything connected with the ghost totally completely comes to an end.
Similarly, as long as I was identifying myself with my body, mind and intellect I recognised my prarabdha and submitted to it. When I realise the Truth, ignorance gets ended and with it the BMI [body-mind-intellect] cease to exist and so how can there be any prarabdha?If this be the case why did the sastra say that prarabdha exists even for a Realised Soul? It is only for the popular understanding of the ignorant who have not got the scientific understanding of Vedanta, at the earlier stage of understanding, that the sastras introduce this in this way. But when the understanding that Truth alone remains, dawns, he will himself come to understand that there can be no prarabdha, for prarabdha is only at the plane of plurality in a concept of time. When a student does not know what a chair is, the teacher draws the picture of a chair and then explains its use and nature. It is only in the initial stages that he draws the picture of the chair and then explains its use to the understanding of the lesser intellects. Later when he refers to the chair he need not draw the picture. So too to the lesser intellects when the sastras explain the nature of realisation with reference to the actions they say there is prarabdha for the Man of Realisation. But, when once the student evolves and gains subtlety of understanding, the teacher points out the Truth in which there is admixture of no otherness.
*Swami Chinmayananda often used these abbreviations: BMI = body-mind-intellect, ie. what I call the body-mind; PFT = perceiver, feeler, thinger, ie. what I call the mind or ego, or what the scriptures call the ego or subtle body; OET = objects, emotions and thoughts, ie. what broadly corresponds to the notion of the world of gross and subtle objects.
I won’t repeat here, but is clear that Swami Chinmayananda is interpreting the text in the same way as I have elucidated above, which in turn is in line with Shankara’s own writings and that of Sri Ramana’s quoted above too.
The next 2 verses of Aparokshanubhuti, verses 98 and 99, continue along the same lines, again arguing against the existence of prarabdha karma for the jnani.
We see the same teaching in Swami Chinmayananda’s commentary on Shankara’s masterpiece Vivekachudamani. Swami Chinmayananda writes in his commentary on Vivekachanudamani verse 462, writing of the Jnani:
‘… For he, in his absolute state of realisation, does not perceive or recognise the existence of the physical body…Summing up his arguments, Shankara, with biting ridicule asks, “How can there be prarabdha for the unreal, which naturally is unborn and, consequently, non-existing?”‘
Notice how Swami Chinmayananda in his above commentary equates ‘unreal’ with ‘non-existing’ and also equates these with ‘non-perception’ and being ‘unborn’. Of course, these terms are synonymous in Vedanta teachings, but later more modern commentators try to twist the words of the scriptures by stating such things as ‘In Vedanta, real means temporary and unreal means permanent’ or other false notions such as ‘Mithya doesn’t mean unreal, it means dependent reality‘. Of course, no such teaching is ever given in Vedanta scriptures or teachings, these being distortions for the mind in order for the mind to make sense of a teaching – more on this in this video and this link here: https://tomdas.com/2024/09/30/the-meaning-of-real-in-advaita-vedanta/
And in his commentary on verse 463 of Shankara’s Vivekachudamani, which we have discussed above already – first here is Swami Chinmayananda’s translation of the verse:
463. If the effects of ignorance are destroyed, root and all, by knowledge, how does the body continue to live? Sruti, from a relative standpoint hypothesises the work of prarabdha for those fools who entertain such doubts
Now let us see the commentary on this verse 463 from Swami Chinmayananda:
In this verse the Acharya tries to explain why even the Upanishads discuss this great concept of prarabdha working upon all bodies including that of the man of Perfection. This is done only from a relative stand-point, to quieten the foolish doubt of an ignorant student.The student sees the body of the Master continuously functioning in the world and naturally, therefore, he feels that the Master continues living because of his prarabdha. Little does he understand that from the lofty panoramic vision of the Master, there is no body, that he is but the pure Self…thus the Upanishads compromise and condescend to accept the concept of prarabdha for the man of realisation only to help the dull ones who are still living in the realms of plurality.
Sri Nisaragadatta Maharaj
Here are some quotes from Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj on Ajata Vada teachings taken from this post here (see this post for even more quotes like this)
The body and mind are only symptoms of ignorance, of misapprehension.
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He who knows the state in which there is neither the world nor the thought of it, he is the Supreme Teacher.
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What do you know of me, when even my talk with you is in your world only?
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NM: The body appears in your mind; in my mind nothing is. Q: Do you mean to say you are quite unconscious of having a body? NM: On the contrary, I am conscious of not having a body. Q: I see you smoking! NM: Exactly so. You see me smoking. Find out for yourself how did you come to see me smoking, and you will easily realize that it is your ‘I am the body’ state of mind that is responsible for this ‘I see you smoking’ idea.
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Nothing dies. The body is just imagined. There is no such thing.
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In my world nothing happens
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NM: My world is real, while yours is made of dreams Q: Yet we are talking. NM: The talk is in your world. In mine – there is eternal silence. My silence sings, my emptiness is full, I lack nothing. You cannot know my world until you are there.
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In reality, nothing ever happens.
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No doubt imagination is richly creative. Universe within universe are built on it. Yet they are all in space and time, past and future, which just do not exist.
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In pure consciousness nothing ever happens
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Do understand that what you think to be the world is your own mind
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I take my stand where no difference exists, where things are not, nor the minds that create them. There I am at home.
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All thinking is in duality. In identity [Tom: ie. self realisation] no thought surives
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Now go within, into a state in which you may compare to a state of waking sleep, in which you are aware of yourself, but not of the world. In that state you will know, without the least trace of doubt, that at the root of your being you are free and happy.
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To know yourself, turn your attention away from the world and turn it within.
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Tom:
There are many other quotes I could give, but hopefully the above gives a flavor of the higher teachings of some of the great sages of the past
This article is an excerpt from a much longer article which you can view here, that gives further quotes from others including Sri Ramana Maharshi, more quotes from Shankara, Suresvara (Shankara’s main student), Yoga Vasistha and Ribhu Gita on this same topic.
There was a particular conceptual world-view that great sages such as Sri Ramana Maharshi encouraged us to take on, if we are able to, in order to facilitate our spritual practice and thereby attain self-realisation or liberation.
For lower seekers of liberation, meaning for those whose minds were unable to be open to the higher teachings, Sri Ramana Maharshi and the great sages often did not give the teachings we will outline below, but for those whose minds were ready and ripe, he would often encourage this following view of creation and the world, as it is this conceptual view that most readily allows the seeker’s mind to properly do self-enquiry and thereby realise the Self.
However, rest assured, that regardless of how one conceives of the world, meaning that even if you do NOT agree with the teachings below, if one makes an earnest attempt to understand and carry out Self-Enquiry, liberation will be assured irrespective of your conceptual view on liberation and the world. Then you will discover the truth for yourself.
A warning/disclaimer
The teachings that are given below, whilst they are open to anyone, they are very radical in their nature. It is not recommended that you read them if you are not an earnest seeker of liberation or if your mind is likely to be destabilised by a more radical notion of the nature of the universe or what liberation looks like.
We will see that these same exact teachings have been given for many centuries, but traditionally these teachings would only be given to a prepared mind, a mind prepared by devotion, faith and loving surrender. This infuses the mind and heart with an energy of peace, calm and loving kindness and happiness. It is this stable peaceful mind that is most able to receive these teachings, although it is possible there can be some exceptions to this.
Some people can find these teachings quite distressing and destablising and the author of this post takes no responsibility for providing this information to you that has been traditionally written about and taught for many centuries and is already in the public domain.
Be open minded to receive these teachings
Similarly, the ego-mind will often reject these teachings when it first hears them. Often a person’s ego will only be able to come to these teachings once it has suffered enough. The more insight the ego has into suffering, and the more it is able to contemplate the causes of suffering, then the more likely it is able to appreciate the truth of these teachings.
Usually only a sharp intellect is usually able to discern these teachings. Many people read these types of spiritual teachings and immediately project their own preconceived ideas onto them, and so distort the teachings from the very beginning. If we keep an open mind and read the range of quotes given, we will inevitably see what they are truly pointing too. If we cling to our own preconceived notions then we are less likely to receive these teachings in the way they were intended.
These teachings are rare and often misunderstood
Many prominent spiritual teachers, including prominent teachers of advaita and non-duality, give out distorted versions of these teaching, so it is important to be able to temporarily put aside all you have learnt whilst reading or listening to these teachings if you really want to understand what the intended communication actually is.
It is also important to not assume that all spiritual teachers are teaching their own versions of the Same One Teaching, and be open to the fact that they may be teaching very different things; just because a teaching is helpful, doesn’t mean it is liberating; and just because a teaching isn’t liberating, it doesn’t mean it will not be helpful to you.
The Jnani does not see the world
Sri Ramana often said that the Jnani (self-realised or liberate Sage) is totally unaware of the body, the mind and the world, and that the liberated sage also has no awareness of the 3 states of dream, deep sleep or waking, all of which are a projection of ignorance (aka the mind). We will see below that Sri Shankara says the same, as does his guru’s guru, Sri Gaudapada, as well as his student, Sri Suresvara.
Sri Gaudapada’s Mandukya Karira and Shankara’s commentary on this
Gaudapada, who was the guru of Shankara’s guru, also makes these teachings (ie. that the body mind and world no longer appear in liberation, ie. Ajata Vada) very clear repeatedly throughout his writings, and Shankara makes these same points in several of his other commentaries too. If you read discerningly you can see Gaudapada makes the following points in the quotes below (as Shankara has already made these points above), and that Shankara brings these very points out in his own commentary on Gaudapada’s verses:
The term ‘duality’ refers to the appearance of objects
Similarly the term ‘non-duality’ refers to that which remains when no objects whatsoever arise
In non-duality there is no duality whatsoever, not even as an appearance (some people are of the impression that the non-dual acts as a ‘container’ for the apparently dual)
The entire world (of phenomenal arisings), which is duality, is projected or created by ignorance and is also known as ‘the effects of ignorance’.
Ignorance is also known as the mind, and every thing (object) we perceive, from the subtle to the gross, is actually a manifestion of thought or mind
When the mind stops, that is the cessation of ignorance; then there are no thoughts, no duality and therefore no effects of ignorance (ie. no appearance of body, thoughts/feelings or the world) as their cause (ignorance) has been removed.
This is akin to the rope and the snake, wherein the snake disappears when the truth of the rope is seen; similarly the arising phenomena, which are illusory like the rope, all cease when the truth of Self is realised.
It is spoken as if there are two levels or aspects of reality – (1) conventional or relative reality consisting of the body mind and world ie. all objects or duality, and (2) the Ultimate or the Absolute, which is the non-dual Brahman/Atman. However, although it is spoken of as two levels, in truth, only one of these actually exists, and in self-realisation it is seen that the relative never existed at all, not even as an appearance. The notion of there being two aspects of reality is a fictional concesession merely used as a teaching device for the ignorant who are presently unable to fathom the unreality and non-existence of the phenomenal world. See herefor more.
If we read discerningly and carefully, we will see that several other notions or theories are refuted by the quotes below and therefore not compatible with them:
the notion that in self-realisation all phenomena continue to arise but are seen as illusion (for it is only the ego or ignorance that sees phenomena or could know phenomena as being real or illusory)
the notion that in self-realisation all phenomena continue to arise but are seen as one with Self (for to admit to phenomena arising would be to admit to multiplicity or duality as somehow existing or apparently existing in the self, and this is not permissable according to the scriptures)
the notion that for the realised sage the body-mind continues according to its remaining (prarabdha) karma – this is a lower teaching for those who are unable to accept the radical ajata teachings explained above.
the notion that when Gaudapada or Shankara deny objects, they are not really denying the objects, but just the notion they are separate from the Self. It is important to note in the quotes below that (1) this view is denied by Shankara and (2) nowhere in the scriptures is this view given, apart from as a lower view.
because the world is an illusion, there is no need to do a practice or have a teacher, as these too are part of the illusion. No, rather the teaching and teacher, whilst ultimately being part of the illusion, they are part of the illusion that help us get out of the illusion, like dreaming of a lion that scares us and wakes us up from that dream. There is a specific teaching and practice that is necessary to undergo whilst the illusion/ignorance appears to exist, and whilst we consider ourself to be a person living in a world and thereby suffering accordingly.
Before we get to verses from Gaudapada, let us read Shankara’s introduction to his commentary on Mandukya Upanishad and Karika, where he explains the purpose of the text:
‘What is the aim of the text? Let me explain: just as a healthy person afflicted by disease will seek a cure for the disease in order to regain the natural state of health, the natural state of being the Self, when afflicted by suffering, will be returned to its ‘natural state of health’ through the cessation of the phenomenal universe of duality.
The aim therefore is the realisation of non-duality. Since the phenomenal world of duality is a creation of ignorance, it can be eradicated through knowledge.’
~ Sri Shankara, introduction to his commentary on Mandukya Upanishad and Mandukya Karika
We can see right that the outset Sri Shankara is summarising the teachings. Let us now see what Gaudapda says in his writings. If we read carefully and discerningly, we will see he is giving a very clear teaching. As usual, unless we read with a clear and discerning mind, the true teaching may ellude us:
‘This duality, which consists of the moving [ie. living beings/creatures] and the unmoving [ie. inert or non-living things], is a projection seen by the mind. Indeed, when there is the state of no-mind, this duality is not perceived/experienced at all.’
Gaudapada states that duality, which consists of all living and non-living things – ie. all objects – is merely a projection of the mind, and when the mind no longer exists (later it will be explained the mind no longer appears or exists in self-realisation), this duality is not experienced/perceived at all. Note how Guadapada specifically refers to and thereby defines duality as the objective realm of living and non-living things, and note how Gaudapada is clear there is no duality in non-duality. Shankara, in his commentary on this verse, states the following:
This duality as a whole, that is perceived by the mind, is nothing but the mind, which itself is imagined – this is the proposition. For duality endures so long as the mind does, and disappears with the disappearance of the mind.
~ Sri Shankara, commentary on Mandukya Karika 3.31
See here how Shankara repeats that duality is a projection of the mind, which itself is a projection/imagination – ie. the mind itself is not a real entity. Note how Shankara also asserts that all phenomenal arising are themselves nothing but mind, and they all disappear when the mind disappears (it will be explained later that the mind disappears in self-realisation).
Shankara also writes the same in his wonderful masterpiece of a text, Vivekachudamani, in many verses, some of which I have included below. Verse 170 in particular was highlighted by Sri Ramana Maharshi as containing a most essential teaching of Vedanta – (see here for verses Sri Ramana Maharshi thought were most important in Vivekachudamani, and see here for more verses like these from Vivekachudamani, as there are many more – this last link also explains the method by which liberation is attained which is not explored so much in this post, and is perhaps the more important topic!):
169. There is no Ignorance (Avidya) outside the mind. The mind alone is Avidya, the cause of the bondage of transmigration. When that is destroyed, all else is destroyed, and when it is manifested, everything else is manifested.
170. In dreams, when there is no actual contact with the external world, the mind alone creates the whole universe consisting of the experiencer etc. Similarly in the waking state also; there is no difference. Therefore all this (phenomenal universe) is the projection of the mind.
179. Man’s transmigration is due to the evil of superimposition, and the bondage of superimposition is created by the mind alone.
180. Hence sages who have fathomed its secret have designated the mind as Avidya or ignorance, by which alone the universe is moved to and fro, like masses of clouds by the wind.
407. This apparent universe has its root in the mind, and never persists after the mind is annihilated. Therefore dissolve the mind by concentrating it on the Supreme Self, which is thy inmost Essence.
~ Sri Shankara, Vivekachudamani
See also how Shankara insists duality ends when the mind ends and equates duality with the appearance of objects or phenomenal arisings. You can also see Shankara is equating ignorance with maya (the power the projects the illusory world) repeatedly. Shankara goes on to say the following in his commentary on the same verse:
For, when the mind ceases to be mind, like the disappearance of the illusory snake in the rope, the mind’s activity stops through the practice of wisdom and detachment, or when the mind gets absorbed in the state of deep sleep, duality is not perceived.
~ Sri Shankara, commentary on Mandukya Karika 3.31
Shankara is likening the illusory projection of objects onto the self to the illusory projection of the snake onto the rope: just like the snake disappears when the truth of the rope is seen, the objects disappear when the truth of the Self is seen/known/realised. Sri Ramana Maharshi explains this same exact teaching in his text ‘Who Am I?’ as follows:
If the mind, which is the cause of all [objective] knowledge and all action, subsides, the perception of the world (jagat-drishti) will cease. Just as the knowledge of the rope, which is the base, will not be obtained unless the knowledge of the snake, the superimposition, goes, so the realization of Self, which is the base, will not be obtained unless the perception of the world which is a superimposition, ceases.
~ Sri Ramana Maharshi, ‘Who Am I?’
Note that Shankara states that objects cease to appear both in deep sleep (when no objects are perceived) and in Self-realisation, making clearer the intended meaning that ‘duality’ refers to the presence or perception or appearance of objects, and that these are absent in self-realisation. Shankara in his commentary then asks how to attain this state of ‘no-mind’ and says this will be explained in Gaudapada’s next verse. In the next verse Gaudapada explains that this no-mind state is attained through self-realisation, and that the mind no longer exists in Self-realisation due to there being no thoughts present:
‘The mind ceases to think as a consequence of the realisation of the Truth that is the Self (Atmasatya), then the mind attains the state of no-mind; in the absence of objects to be perceived, it ceases that perception (of objects).’
Ātma-satya-anubodhenā na saṅkalpayate yadā | Amanastāṃ tadā yāti grāhy-ābhāve tad-grahaṃ
~ Sri Gaudapada, Mandukya Karika 3.32
We can see here in verse 3.32 Gaudapada is stating that in Self-Realisation, all thoughts cease, and when all thoughts cease, there is no mind. Verse 3.31 has already stated that the mind is the cause of the appearance of all objects, the implication is therefore that when the mind ceases to think, it ceases to project any phenomena or objects, and therefore no arising phenomena or objects are perceived in the self. In 3.32 Gaudapada states in the state of no-mind, there are no objects to be perceived and therefore no perception of objects remains. Shankara write the following in his commentary on this verse:
The mind does not think, as fire does not burn in the absense of fuel, then at that time it attains the state of no-mind. In the absense of objects to be perceived, that mind becomes free from the entire illusion of perception.
~ Sri Shankara, commentary on Mandukya Karika 3.32
Notice how Shankara is comparing the mind to fire and objects to fuel – he is saying just as there can be no fire without fuel, there can be no mind without objects appearing/being present. This is the state of no-mind, or self-realisation, in which freedom from all of Maya or phenomenal arising occurs. Again we see the same teaching from Sri Ramana Maharshi in his text ‘Who Am I?’:
What is called mind (manam) is a wondrous power existing in Self. It projects all thoughts. If we set aside all thoughts and see, there will be no such thing as mind remaining separate; therefore, thought itself is the nature (or form) of the mind. Other than thoughts, there is no such thing as the world. In deep sleep there are no thoughts, (and hence) there is no world; in waking and dream there are thoughts, (and hence) there is the world also, Just as the spider spins out the thread from within itself and again withdraws it into itself, so the mind projects the world from within itself and again absorbs it into itself. When the mind comes out (rises) from Self, the world appears. Therefore, when the world appears, Self will not appear; and when Self appears (shines), the world will not appear…The mind can exist only by always depending upon something gross [ie. objects]; by itself it cannot stand’
~ Sri Ramana Maharshi, ‘Who Am I?’
We can see how Sri Ramana also concurs with Shankara and Gaudapada stating that the entire world is merely a projection of the mind, comparing this to a spider projecting a web (a traditional metaphor also used by Shankara in his commentaries) – an apt comparison before the days of computer simulation and wide use of projecting devices. Sri Ramana also states that when the world appears, the Self will not be realised and vice verse – when the Self is realised, the world will not appear. This is made even clearer in the question and answer version of ‘Who Am I?’:
Question 4. When will the realisation of the Self be gained? Sri Ramana: When the world, which is what-is-seen, has been removed, there will be realisation of the Self, which is the seer
Question 5. Will there not be realisation of the Self even while the world is there? Sri Ramana: There will not be
~ Sri Ramana Maharshi, ‘Who Am I?’ (Question and Answer version)
Also note how Sri Ramana uses an analogy similar to Shankara’s fuel/fire analogy when he writes ‘The mind can exist only by always depending upon something gross [ie. objects]; by itself it cannot stand‘, meaning that devoid of objects, the mind cannot survive, just as fire cannot survive without fuel.
Shankara and Ramana are both stating that in self realisation, objects or duality no longer exist or even appear to exist, and therefore, as the mind mind cannot exist without objects, it too can no longer exist. This causality can also be stated the other way round, as causality itself is an illusion, so we can also say that as objects (all living and non-living things as Gaudapada and Shankara put it) are projection of the mind, when the mind becomes no-mind, ie. when there are no thoughts and when therefore there is no mind, the objects can no longer appear. Shankara makes this point repeatedly in his commentaries on other Upanishads and in his various other writings such as Upadesa Saharsri, eg:
All this world is unreal and proceeds from ignorance, because it is seen only by one afflicted by ignorance
~ Sri Shankara, Upadesa Sahasri 17.20
‘For it is not possible for the same person to be engaged in thoughts of sense-objects and to have the vision of the Self as well.’
~Sri Shankara, commentary on Katha Upanishad 2.1.1
‘The highest truth is that in Brahman, which is Truth by nature, nothing whatsoever, not even a jot or a tittle, is born [ie. no phenomenal appearances arise whatsoever]‘
~ Sri Shankara, commentary on Mandukya Karika 3.48
Shankara makes it clear that in Self-Realisation objects do not even arise as an appearance
These teachings are usually only discernable by people of sharp intellect (or intuitively by those who dive deep within and realise the Self or who experience revelation through Grace of God). Despite the above verses, which make the teachings very clear, some people say that Shankara and Gaudapada are not really saying there are no objects that appear in the Self, but they instead are saying that objects do appear and arise in the Self but are either seen to be the Self, or they are seen to be unreal/illusory arisings and in this sense they do not exist: objects arise and appear, but they are not real, like a dream may arise and appear, but is ultimately not real. This view is known as Dristi-Sristi Vada (DSV), and this view is different from Ajata Vada as expounded by Shankara and Gaudapada – see this article here where this is more clearly explained.
Both Shankara and Gaudapada in various places explicity refute this notion of DSV. Towards the end of Chapter 4 of his Mandukya Karika, Gaudapada makes this very point. He states that in order to explain for purposes of teaching we talk about 2 levels of reality:
1) Vyavaharika – firstly there is the vyvaharika or realm of objects, also called conventional reality, transactional reality (because you can transact objects here), the empirical outlook, the phenomenal realm, the relative world of (living and non-living) things, or maya. We can see from the earlier verses cited above that this is also known as duality or the mind.
2) Paramarthika – and secondly there is paramartikha or the ultimate truth, also known as the Self/Atman, the Absolute reality, Brahman. This is no-mind or non-duality where no duality whatsoever is present.
Both Shankara and Gaudapada state that for purposes of teaching usually these 2 levels are acknowledged, but in reality only one of them, Atman, truly exists, and the first one appears to exist only due to maya or ignorance or the mind. This is akin to saying that for teaching purposes we temporarily or provisionally admit of duality or ignorance as actually existing: we talk as if objects, people and things are real and existent, but in truth these things do not exist whatsoever, not even as an appearance, ie. there is no duality in non-duality, or put differently, there are no objects that arise (or are ‘born’) in the self, nothing ever happened and ignorance or maya never existed at all in any way shape or form. This is the meaning of ajata vada, as explained by Shankara and Gaudapada.
Logically, it should be obvious that there cannot really be two points of view if reality is truly non-dual, for two points of view denotes duality.
This teaching comes to a crescendo in Chapter 4 of Gaudapada’s Karika and Shankara makes clear and highlights this teaching even further. For example starting in verse 4.61 through to 4.70 Gaudapada and Shankara explain the (lower and ultimately false) teaching of Dristi-Sristi Vada, namely that all objects arise in consciousness as consciousness and all objective arisings are one with that consciousness. In verse 4.68 Gaudapda states this conventional reality of objects appearing is like a dream, in which all dream phenomena are a projection of mind and one with the mind-consciousness in which they appear, and in verses 4.69 and 4.70 they state it could also be likened to an illusion created by a magician (4.69) or a hallucination created by drugs, etc (4.70). In both these cases the objects come and go, but the consciousness onto which they are projected or superimposed is constant and unchanging.
But then in verse 4.71 Gaudapada states in the highest truth, ie. in self-realisation, no living being is ever born, as there is no source or cause for it (the cause or source for birth would be ignorance, also known as maya, ego or mind):
‘No creature whatsoever has birth, there is no source for it. This is the highest truth where nothing whatsoever is born’
~ Sri Gaudapada, Mandukya Karika 4.71
Shankara then makes this teaching even clearer in his commentary on this verse:
‘It has been said that birth, death, etc of creatures within the range of empirical existence are like those of the creatures in a dream etc, but the highest truth is that where no creature undergoes birth. The remaining portion was explained before [in his commentary on verse 3.48 cited above]’
~ Sri Shankara, commentary on Mandukya Karika 4.71
We can see in this commentary Shankara is clearly refuting the idea that objects continue to appear, like in a dream, in Self-realisation, as in actuality no objects appear (no objects are ‘born’). Shankara refers to his previous comments on verse 3.48 where he writes ‘The highest truth is that in Brahman, which is Truth by nature, nothing whatsoever, not even a jot or a tittle, is born [ie. no phenomenal appearances arise whatsoever]‘.
In the next verse the same teaching is given in a different way: here it is said that objects arise from a vibration of the self, which is the mind or ignorance:
‘The duality of the perceiver and the perceived is the vibration or movement of consciousness or mind (citta-spandikam); yet consciousness itself is always without an object, eternal, and unattached — therefore, it is so described or proclaimed.
cittaspandikamevedaṃ grāhyagrāhakavaddvayam cittaṃ nirviṣayaṃ nityamasaṃgaṃ tena kīrtitam
~ Sri Gaudapada, Mandukya Karika 4.72
Shankara writes in his commentary on this verse:
All duality, which consists of a subject and object, is a vibration of mind/consciousness. But from the Ultimate point of view, consciousness is nothing but the Self, and accordingly it is nirvasayam, without objects…as consciousness is without objects, it is unattached, this is the meaning [of the verse].
~ Sri Shankara, commentary on Mandukya Karika 4.72
We can see that Shankara is clearly stating that unlike a dream or magic show or a drug-induced or otherwise-induced hallucination, in (Ultimate) Reality, appearances or objects no longer arise. In the next verse Gaudapada makes this even clearer:
‘That which exists because of a fancied empirical (relative) outlook, does not do so from the standpoint of the absolute Reality. Anything that may exist on the strength of the empirical outlook, taught by various other schools of thought, does not really exist‘
Gaudapada is clearly stating that that which appears to exist from a relative point of view is actually non-existent in self-realisation. In his commentary on this verse Shankara emphasises this same point stating that the empirical outlook is an imagined illusion that certainly has no actual existence.
All of this has already been stated earlier in Chapter 2 of the same Mandukya Karika, eg. 2.17:
As a rope whose nature has not been well ascertained is imagined in the dark to be various things like a snake, a line of water, etc, so also is the Self imagined variously
~ Sri Gaudapada, Mandukya Karika 2.17
On his commentary on this verse Shankara states the following:
‘..this is the illustration – similarly the Self is imagined to be such countless diverse objects as an individual creature or the vital force, etc, just because It has not been ascertained in its true nature to be pure intelligence, existence and non-duality, and different from such evils as cause and effects that are characteristics of the world. This is the conclusion of all Upanishads’
~ Sri Shankara, commentary on Mandukya Karika 2.17
Some may argue that unlike the rope and snake in which the snake disappears when the rope is seen, when the Highest Truth (of Self) is seen the appearance of the world does not disappear but it continues, but Gaudapada and Shankara both refute this view in the next verse:
‘As illusion (eg. of the snake) ceases and the rope alone remains when the rope is ascertained to be nothing but the rope, so also is the ascertainment about the Self’
~Sri Gaudapada, Mandukya Karika 2.18
Shankara makes it explicitly clear what exactly this means in his commentary on this verse:
‘As on certainly realising that the rope is nothing but a rope all imaginations disappear and there remains rope alone without anything else, so also from the scriptural text ‘neti, neti’ [Brihadaranyaka Upanishad 4.4.22] establishing the Self as devoid of all wordly attributes, there dawn, as a result of the light of the sun of realisation certainty about the Self.’
~ Sri Shankara, commentary on Mandukya Karika 2.18
We can clearly see the analogy between the rope and the imaginary appearance of the illusory snake, is analogous to the Self and the imaginary appearance of objects, and Shankara is clearly stating that the appearances no longer arise in self-realisation. We have already seen that Sri Ramana wrote the same in his text ‘Who am I?’:
If the mind, which is the cause of all [objective] knowledge and all action, subsides, the perception of the world (jagat-drishti) will cease. Just as the knowledge of the rope, which is the base, will not be obtained unless the knowledge of the snake, the superimposition, goes, so the realization of Self, which is the base, will not be obtained unless the perception of the world which is a superimposition, ceases.
~ Sri Ramana Maharshi, ‘Who Am I?’
But perhaps Shankara says it best in his own introduction to the Mandukya Upanishad where he writes:
‘Since the phenomenal world of duality is a creation of ignorance, it can be eradicated through knowledge, and hence this book is begun in order to reveal the knowledge of Brahman’
~ Shankara, introduction to his commentary on Mandukya Upanishad and Gaudapada’s Karika
Shankara also makes the following remark in his introduction, this time summarising chapter 2 of Mandukya Karika:
‘The second chapter is concerned with rationally proving the unreality of the phenomenal world of duality, on the cessation of which is attained non-duality, just as the reality of the rope is know on the elimination of the illusion of the snake etc imagined upon it’
~ Shankara, introduction to his commentary on Mandukya Upanishadand Gaudapada’s Karika
Lastly I will leave you with a verse from Chandogya Upanishad and Shankara’s commentary on this:
‘The infinite is that where one does not see anything else, does not hear anything else, and does not understand anything else. Hence, the finite is that where one sees something else, hears something else, and understands something else. That which indeed is the Infinite is immortal. On the other hand, that which is finite is mortal’
~ Chandogya Upanishad 7.24.1
Shankara writes the following in his commentary on this verse – note he is making a statement about the entire text. Hopefully given all of the above the meaning is clear without my having to comment any further:
‘Therefore the meaning of the whole text is that phenomenal dealing does not exist in the Infinite…the idea is that this [phenomenal dealing] exists during the period of ignorance. It is like a thing seen in a dream, which only exists in that period, before waking’
~ Shankara’s commentary on Chandogya Upanishad 7.24.1
There are so many more quotes, both from Gaudapada and Shankara, on this same topic that give the same teaching. If we explore Shankara’s other commentaries we see these same teachings given again and again. For example, see this post here on Chapter 1 of Gaudapada’s Karika which explains many things including:
the True Self (Atman) is also known as Turiya
there are no phenomenal arisings in Turiya/Atman
no cause or effect or karma exists in Turiya/Atman
in Turiya/Atman there is no consciousness of the waking, dream or deep sleep state
in truth we cannot even say the the phenomenal world disappears in liberation, as when truth (self) is realised, it is ‘known’ that the phenomenal world never even arose or appeared in the first place (ie. the radical ajata doctrine is being ellucidated here)
See here for the rest of this articlewhich provides extensive quotes from Sri Ramana Maharshi, more quotes from Shankara, and other quotes from Yoga Vasistha and Ribhu Gita on this same topic of Ajata Vada
This is one of a series of introductory articles – please see the homepage of tomdas.com for more introductory articles.
This post is also an extract of a much larger post which you can read here which provides extensive quotes from Shankara, Gaudapada, Sri Ramana Maharshi, Yoga Vasistha and Ribhu Gita to give scriptural backing to the 20 points below.
There was a particular conceptual world-view that great sages such as Sri Ramana Maharshi encouraged us to take on, if we are able to, in order to facilitate our spritual practice and thereby attain self-realisation or liberation.
For lower seekers of liberation, meaning for those whose minds were unable to be open to the higher teachings, Sri Ramana Maharshi and the great sages often did not give the teachings we will outline below, but for those whose minds were ready and ripe, he would often encourage this following view of creation and the world, as it is this conceptual view that most readily allows the seeker’s mind to properly do self-enquiry and thereby realise the Self.
However, rest assured, that regardless of how one conceives of the world, meaning that even if you do NOT agree with the teachings below, if one makes an earnest attempt to understand and carry out Self-Enquiry, liberation will be assured irrespective of your conceptual view on liberation and the world. Then you will discover the truth for yourself.
A warning/disclaimer
The teachings that are given below, whilst they are open to anyone, are very radical in their nature. It is not recommended that you read them if you are not an earnest seeker of liberation or if your mind is likely to be destabilised by a more radical notion of the nature of the universe or what liberation looks like.
We will see that these same exact teachings have been given for many centuries, but traditionally these teachings would only be given to a prepared mind, a mind prepared by devotion, faith and loving surrender. This infuses the mind and heart with an energy of peace, calm and loving kindness and happiness. It is this stable peaceful mind that is most able to receive these teachings, although it is possible there can be some exceptions to this.
Some people can find these teachings quite distressing and destabilising and the author of this post takes no responsibility for providing this information to you that has been traditionally written about and taught for many centuries and is already in the public domain.
Be open minded to receive these teachings
Similarly, the ego-mind will often reject these teachings when it first hears them. Often a person’s ego will only be able to come to these teachings once it has suffered enough. The more insight the ego has into suffering, and the more it is able to contemplate the causes of suffering, then the more likely it is able to appreciate the truth of these teachings.
Usually only a sharp intellect is usually able to discern these teachings. Many people read these types of spiritual teachings and immediately project their own preconceived ideas onto them, and so distort the teachings from the very beginning. If we keep an open mind and read the range of quotes given, we will inevitably see what they are truly pointing too. If we cling to our own preconceived notions then we are less likely to receive these teachings in the way they were intended.
These teachings are rare and often misunderstood
Many prominent spiritual teachers, including prominent teachers of advaita and non-duality, give out distorted versions of these teaching, so it is important to be able to temporarily put aside all you have learnt whilst reading or listening to these teachings if you really want to understand what the intended communication actually is.
It is also important to not assume that all spiritual teachers are teaching their own versions of the Same One Teaching, and be open to the fact that they may be teaching very different things; just because a teaching is helpful, doesn’t mean it is liberating; and just because a teaching isn’t liberating, it doesn’t mean it will not be helpful to you.
My recommendation is that you listen to what Sri Ramana Maharshi has to say, and the best way to do that now that his body has passed is to read his own writings themselves.
The Jnani does not see the world
Sri Ramana often said that the Jnani (self-realised or liberate Sage) is totally unaware of the body, the mind and the world, and that the liberated sage also has no awareness of the 3 states of dream, deep sleep or waking, all of which are a projection of ignorance (aka the mind). We will see below that Sri Shankara says the same, as does his guru’s guru, Sri Gaudapada, as well as his student, Sri Suresvara. The quotes given in the later part of this post will concentrate on demonstrating that this was indeed the teachings of these great teachers.
The Conceptual Teaching Framework for the Teachings
The following conceptual teaching framework is consistently given from the Vedas, the Upanishads, Sri Ramana Maharshi, Sri Gaudapada, Sri Shankara, and Sri Suresvara as well as others such as Ramakrishna, Vasistha and Ashtavakra, and it is this larger framework that the quotes that will be given later fit into. It is essentially a combination of the Ajata Vada and Dristi Sristi Vada views. The reason for different views on how the world is created in explained by Sri Ramana Maharshi in his answer to question 10 in his text Self-Enquiry (click here to download the text) as follows:
Question: If the entire universe is of the form of mind, then does it not follow that the universe is an illusion? If that be the case, why is the creation of the universe mentioned in the Veda?
Sri Ramana Maharshi: There is no doubt whatsoever that the universe is the merest illusion. The principal purport of the Veda is to make known the true Brahman, after showing the apparent universe to be false. It is for this purpose that the Vedas admit the creation of the world and not for any other reason. Moreover, for the less qualified persons creation is taught, that is the phased evolution of prakriti (primal nature), mahat-tattva (the great intellect), tanmatras (the subtle essences), bhutas (the gross elements), the world, the body, etc., from Brahman [Tom: ie. the lower seeker is taught a traditional creation model of the world in which the subtle elements progressively evolve into more complex structures, etc], while for the more qualified simultaneous creation is taught, that is, that this world arose like a dream on account of one’s own thoughts induced by the defect of not knowing oneself as the Self [Tom: ie. the defect of not knowing oneself is ignorance, and this creates thoughts, and these project the world akin to a dream, so the world is a creation of ignorance or delusion]. Thus, from the fact that the creation of the world has been described in different ways it is clear that the purport of the Vedas rests only in teaching the true nature of Brahman after showing somehow or other the illusory nature of the universe. That the world is illusory, every one can directly know in the state of realization which is in the form of experience of one’s bliss-nature
Without understanding the creation framework that the teachings are operating in, the teachings are much more difficult to follow. The opposite is also true, in that understanding this framework may greatly aid our journey to liberation. Please note that all of the following points have strong scriptural support and form the clearest most consistent interpretation of the scriptures according to the great sages who have proclaimed them – see the recommended reading list for books that explain these teachings more thoroughly and in greater detail:
1. There is only the Self and you are That. Self-realisation and liberation are synonyms and they represent the highest possible ‘attainment’ in which duality, suffering and any sense of individuality are competely destroyed never to return again. See a summary of Sri Ramana Maharshi’s teachings here for more on this and how to realise this for yourself.
2. In the Self there are no objects or arisings or appearances at all (this is the doctrine of ajata vada – no phenomena are created or born in it, not even as an appearance, see link for more). The Self is:
homogenous (the same throughout, without any variation whatsoever)
unchanging (without possibility of change arising within or being projected upon it)
‘one without a second’
formless (ie. without form and without the possibility of any form arising in it)
without karma (without action or movement, also known as ‘silence’ or ‘stillness’) or the possibility of karma/action (karma literally means action or change, more commonly refering to the chain of cause and effect)
without thoughts or the possibility of thoughts
non-dual (without duaity)
devoid of time and space and therefore devoid of samara (the cycle of birth and death)
blissful – it is heaven, the culmination of all desires, everything you have ever wanted and more, devoid of suffering and without any problems or questions or doubts.
Peace, Silence and Stillness. See herefor what it really means to be still according to Sri Ramana Maharshi.
Infinte unconditional Love – the Self is the only infinite unconditional love, infinite unconditional love not being possible in the realtive realm of objects, people and things, all of which are conditional, under the sway of cause and effect and temporary.
Divine, heavenly, godly
devoid of the appearances or arising of the 3 states (waking, dream and deep sleep)
devoid of body and mind and thought
without ignorance or the possibility of ignorance or any arisings ever arising in it
without describable characteristics; although it is often said to be Sat Chit Ananda, this is a metaphorical description, all descriptions of the Self ultimately fall short and can only be metaphorical at best
unable to be conceived, understood or thought about. All metaphors ultimately fall short when trying to describe or explain the Self, even though they may be provisionally be used as a pedagogical device (teaching aid).
The Self is also known as Turiya (the fourth), Samadhi, Nirvilkalpa Samadhi, Pure consciousness (the word ‘pure’ refers to the absense of arisings), Pure Being, Truth, Reality, True Nature, Jagrat-Susupti (waking-sleep), God, Heaven, the Abosolute, Brahman, etc.
3. The self is both the only ‘thing’ that is real and the only ‘thing’ that exists, although it is not actually ‘a thing’ at all. To know the Self is to know all, and there is no real ‘knowing’ of the self, the word ‘knowledge’ being a metaphor for the removal of ignorance or another word for the Self. To know the Self is just to be the Self devoid of any phenomenal arisings. See here for more on this teaching which explains the true nature of Jnana, or self-knowledge, according to Shankara, Ramana and the scriptures. Reality and Existence are in fact synonyms and the idea that something can be both unreal but still appear or arise is fallacious (a false teaching) and not a teaching found anywhere in the Vedanta scriptures or the Upanishads – see here for more on this teaching. Also see this article here: The Meaning of Real and Unreal in Advaita Vedanta
4. It is due to ignorance that the range of phenomenal appearances appear to arise – ie. the appearance of one’s apparent body-mind, apparent other people and living beings, and apparent things such as tables, chairs, cars, trees, plants, planets, celestial bodies and stars,etc – all of these are a mere projection of ignorance, as explained by Sri Ramana Maharshi in his answer to question 10 in his text Self-Enquiry which you can read here. This projection is known as ‘duality’. In the Self or in non-duality, there is no duality. We will see Shankara and others clearly give this teaching below many times. It is also explained in this video here:
5. This root ignorance also goes by other names such as ego, mind, maya(illusion), imagination, hallucination, nescience, delusion, the I-thought and the I am the body-mind idea. (See the text Self-Enquiry by Sri Ramana Maharshi where this is explained in the answer to question 3) Therefore it could equally just as well be said that the world (ie. body, mind and world) are a projection of any of the above words.
In some teachings it is said that there are 2 forms of ignorance, the macro-form called maya which projects the body mind and world, and the micro-form called ignorance which gives rise to the individual sense of being a person, and that vedanta teachings removes only ignorance, the limited sense of being a jiva, but not maya, and so the body-mind world continues after liberation. Please note this is not the teaching given in the Upanishads or by Shankara at all and is a later development by later commentators who were not able to understand the radical nature of the original true and liberating teachings, and changing the teachings in this way renders a potentially liberating teaching potentially non-liberating. We repeatedly see how the terms ignorance and maya are used interchangably throughout the scriptures.
6. It is also explained that ignorance creates the subtle sense of being identified as a seperate entity (ego), and then this subtle entity (ego) itself projects the body and mind and identifies with this, which is called being a jiva (a living embodied entity). Subsequently, or simultaneously, depending on how it is expounded, the ego also projects the appearance of an environment for the body-mind entity which we call the world, and within this world the body-mind entity roams and experiences various sense objects via the body and subtle objects via the mind (thoughts, feelings, emotions, imaginings). This is explained succinctly in the text ‘Who Am I?’ by Sri Ramana Maharshi – I recommend the Sri Sadhu Om version which is the more accurate of the main translations.
7. In this same way the ego or ignorance projects the 3 states which it then experiences in turn. This is all the realm of ignorance. When objects arise, it is called either the dream or waking state, and when objects temporarily cease, that is called deep sleep. In fact the scriptures go on to explain here that we could say there are only 2 states, one called dream, when object appear, and another called sleep, when there are no objects, and that what we call the waking state is merely another form of dream. These refer to ignorance and reality respectively, or maya (illusion) and satya (truth or reality) – see here for this rare teaching.
8. This ignorance or ego or maya is itself not a real entity and in truth (ie. in self-realisation) it is ‘seen’ to have never actually occurred at all. Nothing (phenomenal) ever really happened at all. This is the ajata teaching, that nothing was ever created or arose at all. There was never any ignorance/maya or even any appearance of ignorance.
9. Within the waking dream, there is a specific way for the apparent ego to apparently remove ignorance (self-enquiry, also known as surrender; these are analgous to the paths of knowledge, jnana, and devotion, bhakti), and when ignorance is removed, the entire effects of ignorance, namely all phenomenal arisings, also cease, the effects no longer having a cause to sustain them. Karma or action refers to movement which can only occur. This specific method is clearly explained in the The Path of Sri Ramana – part 1 and in the book The Most Direct Means to Eternal Bliss by Michael Langford, which you can download for free from the links given. The method specifially involves discovering who or what you really are – this is done by allowing the mind to quieten, allowing the attention to no longer go towards gross and subtle objects, and with attention inward turned discovering the true nature of the ‘I’ or ‘I Am’. Importantly no objects/ phenomena arise at the time of the discovery – it is Pure Self alone, devoid of duality/objects. The method is also explained in brief here and supporting quotes from Shankara and others can be found here.
Just because the waking dream is ultimately an illusion, it doesn’t mean there is not a specific method to escape it. Effort on this specific path is required for liberation.
It is important to listen not only to our own hearts and inner knowing, but to also listen to the words and teachings of the Guru who has already crossed over to the other shore of liberation. Why? Because even though the same teaching the True Guru (Sat Guru) gives is already shining and being sung in our hearts, due to ignorance our minds are turned outwards and emeshed with thoughts, we are often not able to truly listen to our Hearts (the True Guru Within) and instead our ego distorts the teachings. Therefore the Guru’s words are supremely important in aiding us who are genuinely interested in liberation and this is why tradition exaults the value of the Guru on the path to Self-Realisation.
There is no other newer or quicker way that can be discovered to know or realise the Self. This is not a dogmatic assertion, but should become clear once you start to understand the teachings and why Self-Enquiry is the only way to liberation, although the same process can go by other names. Similarly there is no different way for men versus women, for this, like any other science, is universal and is applicable for all.
10. This removal of ignorance is not a real thing at all, ignorance itself being unreal, the whole thing being an imagination that never happened. This paradoxical teaching only appears paradoxical to the mind, which is unable to understand it, the mind being a product or the nature of ignorance. In truth there was only the Self, which cannot even be said to be called the self, as it is beyond all words and concepts, but it is called the Self or witness (the self is not truly a witness) for the purpose of the teaching only – see here for more on this teaching.
11. In self-realisation only the real remains, and the false or unreal no longer appears or exists; only the Self remains and what was previously called non-self, ie. all objects, these no longer remain or appear/arise. When the scriptures say that the jnani sees all phenomenal arisings and objects as being unreal or being illusory, this is a lower teaching for those whose minds are unable to fathom that the jnani is (and themselves are) not a body-mind entity at all. In truth the illusory appearances no longer appear at all and the jnani is not a person.
12. Similarly, the self cannot be known by a body-mind entity or by the mind or the ego. There is no such thing as a ‘person who is self-realised’, although it may appear that way to a person (the ignorant onlooker). There is only the Self and you are that. This also means that, relatively speaking, a jnani cannot be identified by the way they act or behave in the world – what is important is the teaching they give – are they giving a liberating teaching either verbally or non-verbally?
13. Is is the ego or ignorance that creates or projects the world, so the ego is also known as Brahma (the creator deity) or Hiranyagarbha (the cosmic womb or cosmic egg that gives rise to the world) or Isvara (the creator and ruler of the world) or Maya (the magical power that creates the appearance of the world). Sometimes it is said that all creation proceeds from the Self, but this is a simpler or lower teaching for those who consider the world to be real. See here for more on levels of the teaching and how they are taught.
14. Whilst all phenomenal arisings are ultimately illusory, as long as the body mind and world appears, ‘you’ (ego) will think yourself to be a person (a body-mind entity, ie. a jiva) living in a world of people places and things (the world or jagat in Sanskrit). This world is governed by apparent rules and forces which can be personified as a ruler deity (Isvara, which means ruler or Lord). These three, jiva, jagat and isvara, are all illusory.
15. As long as the body mind and world appear, we will consider ourselves to be a jiva (person) living in a jagat (world), we will suffer accordingly, as these appearances are downstream from the root ignorance. Whilst this is the case, there is a clear method, often called Self-Enquiry, also known as the Path of Knowledge, that can be followed to attain liberation – this involves effort and application of the mind (as explained in the video above at point 12). Note that this means it is therefore not possible for appearances to arise and be experienced and simultaneously not indentify as a person/jiva or identify with what is arising. It is not possible for objects to arise in our consciousness and for ignorance to not be fully present. This is explained further in this video here:
16. The self only has to be realised once, and can only be realised once, and then that is the end of the spiritual journey. Then illusion and ignorance ends once and for all. Then all duality and suffering end once and for all, duality being another term for the arising of phenomena. There is no possibility of sadhana after realisation or integration after realisation, for there is no action or entities that exist after realisation. There is also no possibility of falling back into duality again – if that occurs, then it means the self was never truly realised to being with. The self can only be ‘experienced’ once, it can only be ‘abided’ in once, it can only be ‘known’ once (it cannot be truly experienced or known or abided in as it is not an object or container and no words truly apply, all words just being metaphors or pedagogical devices), and then the entire house of cards that is duality and maya and ignorance ends.
Expositions that advise repeated abidance or resting in the Self are just teaching devices to encourage repeated efforts in sadhana, for if we ‘rest’ in the Self just once, then Self is known in its entirely, that is all that is needed. Then there will be no question, no doubts, nor will there be possibility of questions or doubts. Whilst there can be degrees of ignorance and delusion, there are no degrees of liberation or self-knolwedge, which is one. Similarly ideas of different forms of liberation such as jivanmukti (liberation in the body whilst alive) and videhamukti (liberation after the body has died) are ultimately false view given as lower teachings for those requiring explanations on the level of ignorance – this is explained in Sri Ramana Maharshi’s answer to Question 40 in the text Self-Enquiry.
17. The idea that the sage is a person living in the world is only from the view of the ignorant ‘onlooker’ who considers themselves to be a peron, and so projects their own jivahood onto that of the ‘sage’. What we call the body-mind of a sage is in fact a projection of our own self/ignorance. The true Jnani is the self, devoid of thoughts or arisings. See here for more on this teaching. Ideas such as the ego of a Jnani being like a burnt rope or some kinds of karma persisting in liberation are lower teachings, as Sri Ramana Maharshi has explained here.
Relatively speaking, this also means that we are unable to tell who a True Jnani or Sat Guru is by outward signs such as the behaviour of their body-mind; the apparent Jnani can appear and manifest to us in a multitude of ways, according to what suits our own needs and our own ideas.
18. The parts of Maya (the appearance or waking dream) that lead us towards bhakti and self-enquiry and therefore self-realisation or liberation are called the teaching and the teacher. The teaching and the apparent teacher are themselves projections of ego, manifested by our desire for liberation, hence when the student is ready the teacher will appear. See here for more on this teaching.
19. Just as there is in truth only One Self, there is actually (if we concede to the existance of ignorance, which is truly non-existent, like the snake in the rope – see the quotes below for more on this) only one ignorance or one ego. There is only one jiva, just like in a dream. This is called Ek Jiva Vada (the doctrine of one jiva) – see here for more. Similarly, just as there is One Self and one ignorance, there is only One Teacher in truth (and you are That).
This means that only we have to realise our self – there is nobody else to save, no other sentient beings that need ‘enlightening’. When we realise the self, the whole world simultaneously attains liberation, for truth is non-dual. In realisation, there are no others, and where there are others, that is maya/ignorance. This is why Sri Ramana said that the greatest service we can render the world is our own realisation.
20. Note that whilst it is often said that it is the Self that witnesses or perceives the world, the Self, as we will see from the quotes below, is not a perceiver or a witness at all. To be technically correct, it is the ego or mind that sees the world. The self never sees any objects or any things, these objects and things being duality, and the self never admits of any duality or ignorance or multiplicity whatsoever. The self cannot see, hear, feel, think, etc, these all being unreal effects of ignorance only. Even to say the Self knows itself is mere poetic sentiment – the most we can say about the Self is that it IS.
Much of this teaching is given in the book Sadhanai Saram by Sri Sadhu Om, which bears repeated reading and study for those who need it, as well as in the book The Path of Sri Ramana which also explains much of the above but in less detail and can be found on the same link as Sadhanai Saram above.
This teaching is also given in Ribhu Gita, Yoga Vasista and many other places too – please click on the links for texts which concicely summarise these teachings in a wonderful way. See the recommended reading list for more.
Now, in the following multitude of quotes we will concentrate on the nature of the world, and how the Jnani doesn’t see the body mind or world because they are all non-existant in truth, as explained by Sri Ramana Maharshi, Sri Shankara, Sri Gaudapada (the Guru of Shankara’s Guru) and Sri Suresvara (Shankara’s student).
See here for the rest of this articlewhich provides extensive quotes from Shankara, Gaudapada, Sri Ramana Maharshi, Yoga Vasistha and Ribhu Gita to give scriptural backing to the 20 points above.
May you attain liberation!
May you make contact with the Grace of God!
May you be lovingly ferried to the shore of liberation, which is just your own Self!
May your mind be turned inwards and thereby find Peace!
Fact: as long as the body continues to appear in your experience, you will never be 100% sure if it is the body that gives rise to consciousness, or (eternal unchanging) consciousness that gives rise to the body.
This is why all the great sages have advocated the need to turn inwards, away from all sense objects thoughts and phenomena, for deep and total silence of mind and thoughts, so the true nature of what you are can be intuited (without the mind or body or sense objects/world being present), and in this way the birthless deathless eternal and changing self can be realised (again, without the mind. Realisation is not for the mind or by the person).
This is an edited Satsang conversation between a participant and Tom about ‘surrender’. ‘When I surrender I am happy and my life seems to go well. When I am not surrendered I am bothered and life does not go smoothly’.
Tom gives a helpful, descriptive response (using the cinema screen as a metaphor for the Self ) that he refers to as a “Drishti-Srishti Vada Teaching”, or “a teaching with objects present.
For more on Drishti Srishti Vada and the other levels of teaching, here is the article Tom refers to in this video about the 3 stages of reality
Also highly recommended are Tom’s video on Savikalpa & Nirvikalpa teachings and on Partial nonduality.
This video was recorded live during a Satsang meeting with Tom Das on December 5, 2024 and put together by volunteers.
If you take the Jnani (liberated sage) to be a body-mind entity, then you will think he or she eats, drinks, talks, thinks, feels, acts, does this, does that, etc.
But the Jnani is only pure objectless consciousness, one without a second, the pure true non-dual self. The Jnani has no body or mind, and sees no body or mind or world, all of which are seen by the fictional ego due to ignorance, and are known as duality.*
Metaphorically speaking, the Jnani only sees his own (formless, objectless, worldless, homogeneous) Self.
The false I, or ego, rises up, and it is this false I that experiences and perceives all gross and subtle phenomena.
Turning back towards Source/Subject/Self/I Am, with love, in silence, dissolve into that which you truly are.
This is the only way to discover the truth of yourself, and thereby end ignorance delusion ego and suffering. Anything less than this will not end suffering/confusion/delusion/duality.**
🙏🙏🙏
☀️☀️☀️
*This is why Sri Ramana Himself wrote the following verse from Guru Vachaka Kovai:
The sage Self-realised knows not Whether the transient body comes And stays, or dies and leaves, even as The senseless drunkard knows not what Happens to his clothes. ~ SRI BHAGAVAN 24
This is also the true meaning of the Upanishadic verse, a form of which is here written by Sri Ramana, also in Guru Vachaka Kovai:
There is no creation, no destruction. None bound, none seeking, striving, Gaining freedom. Know that this Is the Truth supreme. ~ SRI BHAGAVAN 28
A version of this above verse is found in the Amritabindu Upanishad in verse 10 and in the Atma Upanishad in verse 2.31. It was later incorporated by both Gaudapada (Mandukya Karika 2.32) and Shankara (Vivekachudamani verse 574) in their writings
**This is why Sri Ramana says in Guru Vachaka Kovai:
291. For those who seek eternal life The assurance stands: the senses five Retracted tortoise-like, the mind Turned homeward to the Self and there Abiding is pure bliss.
293. Know that these countless things are pictures In a dream and none is real Apart from the beholder. Shun This phantom world of names and forms And dwell in the pure, blissful being Of Awareness.
364. When the ego-life dissolves And dies in silence, then one lives The life supreme of Pure Awareness. When the false ego dream-like fades Into its source, the true Self rises Of its own accord.
There are many various ideas spoken by many various teachers about what Turiya is and what it isn’t. As always, it is best to go to the source material (the Upanishads in this case) directly to find out what the original intended meaning of Turiya actually is.
In this post I have collated the main scriptural quotes from the Upanishads, from Gaudapada and from Sri Ramana Maharshi on the teachings about Turiya. In fact I have included some very rare instances of where Sri Ramana Maharshi has written teachings in English in his own handwriting about Turiya. I have also included some commentary from Sri Shankara too. At the end of the post there is a link to teachings on Turiyatita, the ‘state beyond the fourth’ – we will see this is simply another way of talking about Turiya itself.
Turiya, literally meaning ‘the fourth’, refers to the state beyond the three states of waking, dream and deep sleep that make up our entire experience of life as an apparent person. Turiya, as we will see, refers to the true Self that we are, Brahman, Atman, the One, that when realised dispells all illusion and suffering. It is pure bliss.
You are That. Om Tat Sat. Namaste.
Turiya is mentioned in several of the Upanishads, including the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad – the longest and likely first of all the Upanishads – but Turiya is most famously described in the shortest Upanishad of them all, the Mandukya Upanishad, which contains only 12 verses and is said to contain the entire Vedanta teaching in compressed but potent form for those who are able to understand it.
About 1500-1600 years ago Sri Gaudapada wrote a commentary on the Mandukya Upanishad called the Mandukya Karika or Gaudapada Karika, the entire text of which you can read for free here.
About 1400 years ago, Sri Shankara also wrote a commentary on the Mandukya Upanishad and also on Gaudapada’s commentary on the Mandukya Upanishad. In this text he refers to Turiya is various places, and you can see my translation of his introduction to this commentary here, which also elaborates some fundamental Advaita Vedanta teachings on Self-Realisation and Liberation (Moksha). I have also included some of Shankara’s commentary below.
On Turiya– the Mandukya Upanishad:
Firstly we shall see the most famous verse on Turiya, verse 7 of the Mandukya Upanishad, where Turiya is defined. Because it is such an important verse I have provided the original Sanskrit and the word for word translation below:
नान्तःप्रज्ञं न बहिःप्रज्ञं नोभयतःप्रज्ञं न प्रज्ञानघनं न प्रज्ञं नाप्रज्ञम् | दृश्यमव्यवहार्यमग्राह्यमलक्षणमचिन्त्यमव्यपदेश्यमेकात्मप्रत्ययसारं प्रपञ्चोपशमं शान्तं शिवमद्वैतं चतुर्थं मन्यन्ते स आत्मा स विज्ञेयः
nāntaḥprajñaṃ na bahiḥprajñaṃ nobhayataḥprajñaṃ na prajñānaghanaṃ na prajñaṃ nāprajñam | adṛśyam avyavahāryam agrāhyam alakṣaṇam acintyam avyapadeśyam ekātmapratyayasāraṃ prapañcopaśamaṃ śāntaṃ śivamadvaitaṃ caturthaṃ manyante sa ātmā sa vijñeyaḥ
na antaḥprajñaṃ: not inwardly conscious na bahiḥprajñaṃ: not outwardly conscious na ubhayataḥprajñaṃ: not conscious of both (inner and outer) na prajñānaghanaṃ: not a mass of consciousness na prajñaṃ: not (ordinary or simple or everyday) consciousness na aprajñam: not unconsciousness adṛśyam: unseen, unperceived, invisible avyavahāryam: unrelated to empirical dealings or objects or karma agrāhyam: ungraspable, incomprehensible alakṣaṇam: uninferable, without characteristics acintyam: unthinkable avyapadeśyam: indescribable ekātmapratyayasāraṃ: the essence of the realisation of oneness of the Self, essence of one-self-realisation prapañcopaśamaṃ: cessation of the manifested world or phenomenal existence śāntaṃ: tranquil śivam: Shiva, auspicious, blissfull, benign, divine, holy advaitaṃ: non-dual caturthaṃ: the fourth manyante: considered, thought of, known as sa ātmā: that is the Self sa vijñeyaḥ: that is to be realised
Turiya is not that which is conscious of the inner (subjective) world, nor that which is conscious of the outer (objective) world, nor that which is conscious of both, nor that which is a mass of consciousness. It is not simple or ordinary consciousness nor is it unconsciousness. It is unperceived, unrelated, incomprehensible, uninferable, unthinkable and indescribable. The essence of the realisation of oneness of the Self, it is the cessation of all phenomena; it is non-dual peace-holiness-bliss. This is what is known as the Fourth (Turiya). This is Atman and this has to be realised.
~ Mandukya Upanishad, verse 7
Turiya is here being equated with the Self, Atman, and it is this Turiya that is to be realised: ‘This is what is known as the Fourth (Turiya). This is Atman and this has to be realised’.
This Atman is not conscious of the waking, dream or deep sleep state, nor is it mere ordinary consciousness – it is indescribable and it contains no phenomena within it, so states the Upanishad: ‘Turiya is not that which is conscious of the inner (subjective) world, nor that which is conscious of the outer (objective) world, nor that which is conscious of both…It is not simple or ordinary consciousness…It is the cessation of all phenomena‘
Shankara, in his commentary on this verse 7 Mandukya Upanishad, confirms this is the correct interpretation of the verse. In fact this translation was made in line with Shankara’s commentary and explanation – Shankara’s commentary on verse 7 is too long to include here in this post, but he writes that Turiya is ‘the one in which all phenomena have ceased‘. This can sound like quite a strange or extreme teaching, so please see here for more on this teaching where more of an explanation is given.
Let us move onto verse 12, perhaps the 2nd most famous verse on Turiya:
The Fourth (Turiya) is without parts and without relationship; It is the cessation of phenomena; It is all good and non—dual. This AUM is verily Atman. He who knows this merges his self in Atman—yea, he who knows this.
~ Mandukya Upanishad, verse 12
This is the final verse in the Madukya Upanishad. Like in verse 7, Turiya is again equated with Atman (the Self) and AUM – it ‘is without any parts‘, meaning there are no objects that can arise in it, again emphasised by stating it is ‘without relationship‘ – meaning there is no relative ‘truth’ present and it has no relation to objects or phenomena.
This is further emphasised when it states ‘It is the cessation of phenomena’, as per verse 7 which states the same. It is all good, meaning it is pure positivity without any negativity whatsoever, without any opposite. It is non-dual, meaning without any time, space, people or objects. Again, please see here for more on this teaching.
Shankara, in his commentary on this verse writes that in Turiya there is ‘the disappearance of all names and nameables, that are but forms of speech and mind.‘ Shankara here has called objects ‘nameables’ and he is also giving us the Vedantic teaching of the scriptures that state that all things in the universe are created by the mind. For example, in the text Vivekachudamani written by Shankara as a summary of all the Vedanta teachings, Shankara writes:
169. There is no Ignorance (Avidya) outside the mind. The mind alone is Avidya, the cause of the bondage of transmigration. When that is destroyed, all else is destroyed, and when it is manifested, everything else is manifested.
170. In dreams, when there is no actual contact with the external world, the mind alone creates the whole universe consisting of the experiencer etc. Similarly in the waking state also; there is no difference. Therefore all this (phenomenal universe) is the projection of the mind.
Turiya is what you are. Aum Tat Sat. This will be further explained and elaborated upon in the following verses.
We will see Sri Ramana Maharshi’s teaching on Turiya later in the post, but here is a quick teaching from Sri Ramana Maharshi on this topic:
‘There is no mind, nor body, nor world, nor anyone called a soul; the One pure Reality alone exists, without a second, unborn and unchanging, abiding in utter Peace’
~Sri Ramana Maharshi, Guru Ramana Vachana Mala, verse 22
And
In reality, saying ‘We must see Brahman in everything and everywhere’ is also not quite correct. Only that state is final, where there is no seeing, where there is no time or space. There will be no seer, seeing and an object to see. What exists then is only the infinite eye.’
~ Sri Ramana Maharshi, Day by Day with Bhagavanpage 193
Sri Gaudapada on Turiya:
About 1500-1600 years ago, Sri Gaudapada wrote a commentary on the Mandukya Upanishad called the Mandukya Karika, also known as Gaudapada’s Karika, that summarises the Advaita Vedanta teachings. Here are some of his writings on Turiya from the first chapter of this work:
1.10 Turiya, the changeless Ruler, is capable of destroying all miseries. All other entities being unreal, the non—dual Turiya alone is known as effulgent and all—pervading.
Tom: Turiya ends all suffering, everything other than turiya is unreal
1.11 Visva (the waker or waking state) and Taijasa (the dreamer, or dream state) are conditioned by cause and effect. Prajna (the sleeper, or deep sleep state) is conditioned by cause* alone. Neither cause nor effect exists in Turiya.
Tom: there is no cause or effect in Turiya
1.12 Prajna does not know anything of self or non-self, of truth or untruth. But Turiya is ever existent and all-seeing.
1.13 Non-cognition of duality is common to both Prajna (deep sleep) and Turiya. But Prajna is associated with sleep in the form of cause* and this sleep does not exist in Turiya.
*Tom: prajna, the sleeper or deep sleep, is characterised as being pure potentiality, the source of all manifestation, or maya, the seed of ignorance from which all manifestation arises. See verse 6 of Mandukya Upanishad where it states of prajna ‘He (prajna) is the source of all; for from him all beings originate and in him they finally disappear’
Tom: In both deep sleep and Turiya there is no cognition of duality or cognition of objects – we can see that Gaudapada equates perception of objects with perception of duality. However in deep sleep the Self is not known as there is a cause or seed of ignorance present (the Sanskrit word ‘bija’ used in this verse means both cause or seed, and Shankara in his commentary on this verse explains this is the meaning too). In Turiya this sleep-seed of ignorance is not present.
1.14 The first two, Visva and Taijasa, are associated with dreaming and sleep respectively; Prajna, with sleep bereft of dreams. Knowers of Brahman see neither sleep nor dreams in Turiya.
Tom: in Turiya (or for the knower of Brahman or the one who is Self-realised), there is no perception or arising of waking, dream or deep sleep
1.15 Dreaming is the wrong cognition, and sleep the non-cognition, of Reality. When the erroneous knowledge in these two is destroyed, Turiya is realised.
1.16 When the jiva, asleep under the influence of beginningless maya, is awakened, it then realises birthless, sleepless and dreamless Non—duality.
Tom: the reality (ie. Self or Turiya) is without birth (objects arising), without sleep, and without dream. ie. the waking, dream and deep sleep states are not present, nor do they arise in reality. So, do they disappear in self-realisation? Let us see…
1.17 If the phenomenal universe were real, then certainly it would disappear. The universe of duality which is cognised is mere illusion (maya); Non—duality alone is the Supreme Reality.
Tom: this verse is often quoted by itself without the preceding verses, and so misinterpreted. We can see in context that it is saying the following: if the phenomenal universe ever appeared, then it would certainly disappear upon Self-realisation. However, since the universe is maya, it (paradoxically to the mind) never actually appeared at all. There was only the non-dual Turiya or Self, nothing else.
Shankara explains this in more detail in his commentary on this verse 1.17. He writes ‘there is no doubt that had it [the world] existed, it would cease to be‘ and ‘this duality which is nothing but maya and is called the phenomenal world‘ – note he is equating maya with duality and the phenomenal world. Then Shankara concludes his commentary by summarising the meaning of this verse when he writes: ‘the meaning is that there is no such thing as a world that appears or disappears‘.
See here for more on this somewhat paradoxical teaching.
1.18 If anyone imagines illusory ideas such as the teacher, the taught and the scriptures, then they will disappear. These ideas are for the purpose of instruction. Duality ceases to exist when Reality is known.
Tom: The same point is being made again – ie. in truth duality or maya or appearances never actually ever came about. If you think they did come about, then they will disappear upon Self-Realisation. See Shankara’s commentary which explains the same.
Sri Ramana Maharshi on Turiya – in his own English handwriting:
First we have some writings of Sri Ramana Maharshi on Turiya, see here for verses written in English by Sri Ramana Maharshi himself, see this post here for more information on the context of these writing and for more teachings written by Sri Ramana Maharshi in English:
In the photo above we can see Sri Ramana Maharshi has written in English handwriting the following, in which is he saying Turiya is worldless, that is, without objective phenomena present, and this is taught in the Mandukya Upanishad:
‘In this hymn of Truth of the Self known as Turiya (the Fourth State), which is worldless, is explained as set out in the Mandukya Upanishad’
In this image above can see that Sri Ramana writes the following:
‘He is the master who is firmly established in his own True Nature, known as Turiya, and whatever he teaches is the highest upanishad’
We can see Sri Ramana is writing that Turiya is one’s own true nature, and that the sage is firmly established in this Turiya. He then states whatever the sage teaches is the highest Upanishad.
For more teachings written in English by Sri Ramana Maharshi see this post here and be sure to download the PDFs on that page for even more.
Sri Ramana Maharshi on Turiya – miscellaneous quotes:
Here are some other miscellaneous quote from Sri Ramana:
Turiya is only another name for the Self. Aware of the waking, dream and sleep states, we remain unaware of our own Self ~Sri Ramana Maharshi: Talks 353
It is the state of jivanmukti [Tom: liberation in this life] that is referred to as the attributeless Brahman and as the Turiya ~Sri Ramana Maharshi – Vichara Sangraham
Questioner: Why is the Self described both as the fourth state (turiya) and beyond the fourth state (turiyatita)?
Sri Ramana Maharshi: Turiya means that which is the fourth. The experiencers (jivas) of the three states of waking, dreaming and deep sleep, known as visva, taijasa and prajna, who wander successively in these three states, are not the Self. It is with the object of making this clear, namely that the Self is that which is different from them and which is the witness of these states, that it is called the fourth (turiya). When this is known, the three experiencers disappear and the idea that the Self is a witness, that it is the fourth, also disappears. That is why the Self is described as beyond the fourth (turiyatita).
~Sri Ramana Maharshi, Spritual Instruction 4.8
32. For one who seeks waking, dreaming or sleep there is a state beyond these three, a wakeful sleep, a fourth state called the turiya. But because this turiya state alone is real and the three apparent states are illusory, the ‘fourth’ state is indeed the transcendental state.
-Sri Ramana Maharshi, Supplement to 40 verses on reality
In the last verse Sri Ramana Maharshi equates Turiya with ‘wakeful sleep’ or ‘conscious sleep’, in Sanskrit, ‘Jagrat Sushupti’. Sri Ramana many times gave this teaching, which can help us better understand what Self-Enquiry actually is and how to realise the Self – see these articles for more on this topic:
Sri Ramana Maharshi’s teaching on Turiya as recorded in Sri Ramana Paravidyopanishad:
The following teachings of Sri Ramana Maharshi were recorded in the text Sri Ramana Paravidyopanishad by Lakshmana Sarma (LS), a direct devotee who spend about 20 years with Sri Ramana. LS was one of only 2 people who received private tutelage from Sri Ramana on the deeper meaning of his teachings, the other being Sri Muruganar. LS was also a fluent English speaker and the translations below were made by LS himself, so we can be assured of their accuracy. LS has also provided his own commentary on the teachings, some of which I have provided below:
28. Since that state is changeless, worldless and calm, beyond the states of waking and the rest, it is called the fourth state. Such is the teaching of the Mandukya Upanishad.
Commentary from Lakshmana Sarma (LS): This is why there is no peace in the realm of ignorance. Peace prevails only in the transcendental state, which is the true state of the Self. Among the three states there is a distinction, which is stated next
30. The whole of this world is contained within this trinity of states. The reality of the fourth state, which is worldless, transcends these three states.
LS: Thus it is stated that, because of the underlying sleep of ignorance, the so-called waking is really a state of dream. This will be elaborated later, when the question of the reality of the world is discussed. The fourth state is in perfect contrast with the other three, being sleepless, dreamless and therefore worldless. It is the abode of freedom. Freedom cannot be had in any of the three states. This is one of the fundamentals of the transcendental metaphysics as taught by the sages.
34 Thus, every creature is asleep: none in this world of souls is awake. Only the sage, who, being firmly established in the fourth state, having transcended the three states, and who is free from ignorance, is awake.
LS: Being awake here means being aware of the real Self as it really is. Because of this awakening, he [the sage] is no more troubled by the dream called the world. This uniqueness of the sage is explained in the next two verses.
35 The sage is wide-awake, having become established in the true state of the Self, which is free from the darkness of ignorance. In respect of the dream-world that is being seen by those drowsy with ignorance of the Self, he is asleep.
36 Hence it is said that this world is as night to the sage, whereas to the ignorant the real Self is as night. For this reason the natural state, the fourth state is described by the sages as a state of waking sleep.
LS: This distinction between the sage and the ignorant finds a place in the following verse of the Gita: ‘The sage is awake in what is night to all creatures. That in which the creatures are awake is night to the sage, though he is, in fact, awake.’ This implies that from the standpoint of the sage, the world is unreal. This verse suggests a question: how the sage, whose body is still alive, can carry on his mission as a teacher of supreme wisdom. The solution to this riddle lies in the fact that the natural state of a sage does not interfere with the sage’s work as a teacher. That activity goes on in a mysterious way, which is explained to the extent possible in a later context. From all this it might appear that sagehood is something anomalous. What is anomalous is the worldly outlook, which is blind to the real and attentive to the unreal dream, the world-appearance. The worldly ones are just like intoxicated or mad people. It is the sage who is both sober and sane. Up to now the supreme state of the sage has been called the fourth state. But this name is only a concession to novices, as is shown presently.
37 For those to whom the three states, waking and the rest, are real, that [supreme] state is mentioned as ‘the fourth state’. But since that so-called fourth state alone is real, and these three are unreal, the term ‘fourth state’ is not rightly applicable to it.
LS: The supreme state is therefore just the transcendental state. When compared to this state, the three worldly states cannot be considered to be real. Their seeming reality is no more authentic than the reality that is ascribed to a dream while it lasts. This point will be further elaborated later. The cause of the difference between the three states and the supreme state is explained next.
38 In dream and waking, the mind, being active, itself creates the world. In deep sleep it goes into seed form; on awaking it again creates the world.
LS: In deep sleep the mind is not completely lost; it goes into a latent state, out of which it can emerge and become active again as before. This is the reason for the continuance of bondage. Thus, these three states form a vicious circle that can be broken only by finally extinguishing the mind so that it cannot revive on awaking. To reach this goal the mind-free state must be attained in the waking state itself since the other two states are useless for this purpose.
39 Unless and until the mind becomes utterly extinct, these three states will continue to prevail. When the mind becomes extinguished, the supreme state, in which this world once and for all ceases to appear [as real], is won.
LS: During the prevalence of ignorance the three states conceal the supreme state. The latter cannot be experienced because of these. To be able to experience that state the mind must be destroyed so that the world-creation will also cease. To this end, the quest must be taken up and pursued until the mind-free state is established. This is often styled the state of knowledge. But this description is misleading for the reason stated presently.
40 Though that state of being the real Self is called the state of knowledge, it is one in which there is none of the three: the knower, the object known, and the act of knowing. That being the case, what does one know there, by what means, and who is there to know? It must be understood that knowledge is just a name for the state of being the Self.
LS: That state is different from anything else because it is a state of non-duality (advaita). There is no object to be known, nor is there a knower – the soul – and hence there is no knowing. So ‘knowledge’ or ‘awareness’ are just arbitrary names for this state.
Sri Ramana Maharshi’s teachings on Turiya as recorded in Guru Vachaka Kovai:
The text Guru Vachaka Kovai, or Garland of Guru’s Sayings, is widely recognised and the most authoritative recording of Sri Ramana Maharshi’s verbal teachings, which fully and systematically explain the method and nature of Self Realisation, as much is possible in words. You can read the full text for free here. Here are some verses from that text on Turiya:
17. To those who look within, the highest Good gained by the Master’s grace Is wakeful sleep, the turiya state, The undying flame, the sweet, uncloying Fruit forever fresh.
80. Jivas suffer in the hot dry Desert of the world, the dream Born out of the whirling vasanas old. Shady refuge from the triple Fire of desire raging here, They find beneath the spreading Bodhi tree, turiya, Self-Awareness.
937. The sage whose ego is extinct Is freed from the three seeming states Of waking, dreaming and deep sleep. All that remains for such a sage Is turiya, the most noble state, First, last and all-transcendent.
940. This true and laudable awareness, Turiya, may be aptly named Grand Sleep that knows no waking, Or Eternal Wakefulness untouched By slippery sleep
1009. The last, eternal resting place For those who are tired of seeking bliss Here, there, everywhere, what is it But the marvellous turiya space Revealed by sages who with Siva’s own Bright, flawless Being-Awareness shine.
1123.He who has seen himself as Being As Awareness sees the eternal Siva, He has seen the death of terrible Duality. He has seen his own Natural state of turiya pure. Birth is what this great one sees not.
Tom: Here are most of the verses from Chapter 1 of Gaudapada’s commentary on the Mandukya Upanishad, as translated by Swami Nikhilananda. I have made comments on some of these verses in italicised red. See here for the full text of Gaudapada’s commentary on the Mandukya Upanishad.
See here for my translation of Shankara’s Introduction to this great work.
Translation by Swami Nikhilananda
The Mandukya Upanishad is 12 verses on AUM Mantra. It is often cited as the most important of the Upanishads. Gaudapada’s Karika is a commentary relating to those 12 verses and is one of the most important and authoritative texts in the Advaita Vedanta tradition.
Chapter I [of Gaudapada’s Karika] – Agama Prakarana (The Chapter based on Vedic Testimony)
Mandukya Upanishad – Verses I-VI:
I: Harih Aum! AUM, the word, is all this, the whole universe. A clear explanation of it is as follows: All that is past, present and future is, indeed, AUM. And whatever else there is, beyond the threefold division of time—that also is truly AUM.
Tom: all there is is AUM
II: All this is, indeed, Brahman. This Atman is Brahman. This same Atman has four quarters.
Tom: AUM is Brahman, they are one and the same. Brahman is Atman. It has 4 parts – we will see later that 3 of these 4 parts do not actually exist at all
III: The first quarter is called Vaisvanara (Tom: the waker), whose sphere of activity is the waking state, who is conscious of external objects, who has seven limbs and nineteen mouths and who is the experiencer of gross objects.
IV: The second quarter is Taijasa (Tom: the dreamer), whose sphere of activity is the dream state, who is conscious of internal objects, who is endowed with seven limbs and nineteen mouths and who is the experiencer of subtle objects.
V: That is the state of deep sleep wherein one asleep neither desires any object nor sees any dream. The third quarter is Prajna (Tom: the sleeper), whose sphere is deep sleep, in whom all experiences become unified, who is, verily, a mass of consciousness, who is full of bliss and experiences bliss and who is the door leading to the knowledge of dreaming and waking.
VI: He is the Lord of all. He is the knower of all. He is the inner controller. He is the source of all; for from him all beings originate and in him they finally disappear.
Tom: note that Prajna, or the sleeper or deep sleep, here is characterised as being the source of all maya, the seed of ignorance from which arises all manifestation/duality – ‘He is the source of all; for from him all beings originate and in him they finally disappear.’
Gaudapada’s Karika
1 Visva is all—pervading, the experiencer of external objects. Taijasa is the cognizer of internal objects. Prajna is a mass of consciousness. It is one alone that is thus known in the three states.
Tom: Vivsa is the waker – that which experiences the waking state, taijasa is the dreamer – that which experiences the dream state, and prajna is the sleeper – that which experiences the deep sleep state
2 Visva is the cognizer through the right eye; Taijasa is the cognizer through the mind within; Prajna is the akasa in the heart. Therefore the one Atman is perceived threefold in the same body.
3—4 Visva experiences the gross; Taijasa, the subtle; and Prajna, the blissful. Know these to be the threefold experience. The gross object satisfies Visva; the subtle, Taijasa; and the blissful, Prajna. Know these to be the threefold satisfaction.
5 The experiencer and the objects of experience associated with the three states have been described. He who knows these both does not become attached to objects though enjoying them.
6 Surely a coming into existence must be predicated of all positive entities that exist. Prana manifests all inanimate objects. The Purusha manifests the conscious beings in their manifold forms.
7 Some of those who contemplate the process of creation regard it as the manifestation of God’s powers; others imagine creation to be like dreams and illusions.
8 Those who are convinced about the reality of manifested objects ascribe the manifestation solely to God’s will, while those who speculate about time regard time as the creator of things.
9 Some say that the manifestation is or the purpose of God’s enjoyment, while others attribute it to His division. But it is the very nature of the effulgent Being. What desire is possible for Him who is the fulfillment of all desires?
Mandukya Upanishad Verse VII:
VII: Turiya is not that which is conscious of the inner (subjective) world, nor that which is conscious of the outer (objective) world, nor that which is conscious of both, nor that which is a mass of consciousness. It is not simple consciousness nor is It unconsciousness. It is unperceived, unrelated, incomprehensible, uninferable, unthinkable and indescribable. The essence of the Consciousness manifesting as the self in the three states, It is the cessation of all phenomena; It is all peace, all bliss and non—dual. This is what is known as the Fourth (Turiya). This is Atman and this has to be realized.
Tom: Turiya is here being equated with the Self, Atman, and it is this Turiya that is to be realised: ‘This is what is known as the Fourth (Turiya). This is Atman and this has to be realized’. This Atman is not conscious of the waking, dream or deep sleep state, nor is it mere ordinary consciousness – it is indescribable and it contains no phenomena within it, so states the Upanishad: ‘Turiya is not that which is conscious of the inner (subjective) world, nor that which is conscious of the outer (objective) world, nor that which is conscious of both…It is not simple consciousness…It is the cessation of all phenomena‘
Gaudapada’s Karika continued
10 Turiya, the changeless Ruler, is capable of destroying all miseries. All other entities being unreal, the non—dual Turiya alone is known as effulgent and all—pervading.
Tom: Turiya ends all suffering, everything other than turiya is unreal
11 Visva and Taijasa are conditioned by cause and effect. Prajna is conditioned by cause alone. Neither cause nor effect exists in Turiya.
Tom: there is no cause or effect in Turiya
12 Prajna does not know anything of self or non—self, of truth or untruth. But Turiya is ever existent and all—seeing.
13 Non—cognition of duality is common to both Prajna and Turiya. But Prajna is associated with sleep in the form of cause and this sleep does not exist in Turiya.
Tom: In both deep sleep and Turiya there is no cognition of duality or cognition of objects – we can see that Gaudapada equates perception of objects with perception of duality. However in deep sleep the Self is not known as there is a cause or seed of ignorance present (the Sanskrit word ‘bija’ used in this verse means both cause or seed). In Turiya this sleep-seed of ignorance is not present.
14 The first two, Visva and Taijasa, are associated with dreaming and sleep respectively; Prajna, with Sleep bereft of dreams. Knowers of Brahman see neither sleep nor dreams in Turiya.
Tom: in Turiya (or for the knower of Brahman or the one who is Self-realised), there is no perception or arising of waking, dream or deep sleep
15 Dreaming is the wrong cognition and sleep the non—cognition, of Reality. When the erroneous knowledge in these two is destroyed, Turiya is realized.
16 When the jiva, asleep under the influence of beginningless maya, is awakened, it then realizes birthless, sleepless and dreamless Non—duality.
Tom: the reality (ie. Self or Turiya) is without birth (objects arising), without sleep, and without dream. ie. the waking, dream and deep sleep states are not present, nor do they arise in reality. So, do they disappear in self-realisation? Let us see…
17 If the phenomenal universe were real, then certainly it would disappear. The universe of duality which is cognized is mere illusion (maya); Non—duality alone is the Supreme Reality.
Tom: this verse is often quoted by itself without the preceding verses, and so misinterpreted. We can see in context that it is saying the following: if the phenomenal universe ever appeared, then it would certainly disappear. However, since the universe is maya, it (paradoxically to the mind) never actually appeared at all. There was only the non-dual Turiya or Self, nothing else. See here for more on this teaching.
18 If anyone imagines illusory ideas such as the teacher, the taught and the scriptures, then they will disappear. These ideas are for the purpose of instruction. Duality ceases to exist when Reality is known.
Tom: The same point is being made again – ie. in truth duality or maya or appearances never actually ever came about. Note that Gaudapada here, like elsewhere, equates appearances with duality.
Mandukya Upanishad – Verses VIII-XI:
VIII: The same Atman explained before as being endowed with four quarters is now described from the standpoint of the syllable AUM. AUM, too, divided into parts, is viewed from the standpoint of letters. The quarters of Atman are the same as the letters of AUM and the letters are the same as the quarters. The letters are A, U and M.
IX: Vaisvanara Atman, whose sphere of activity is the waking state, is A, the first letter of AUM, on account of his all— pervasiveness or on account of his being the first. He who knows this obtains all desires and becomes first among the great.
X: Taijasa Atman, whose sphere of activity is the dream state, is U, the second letter of AUM, on account of his superiority or intermediateness. He who knows this attains a superior knowledge, receives equal treatment from all and finds in his family no one ignorant of Brahman.
XI: Prajna Atman, whose sphere is deep sleep, is M, the third letter of AUM, because both are the measure and also because in them all become one. He who knows this is able to measure all and also comprehends all within himself.
Gaudapada’s Karika continued
19 When it is desired to describe the identity of Visva and the letter A, the chief ground given is the fact that each is the first in its respective sphere. Another reason for this identity is the all—pervasiveness of each.
20 The clear ground for realizing Taijasa as of the same nature as the letter U is the common feature of superiority. Another plain reason for such identity is their being in the middle.
21 The indisputable reason given for the identity of Prajna and M is the common feature that both are the measure. The other reason for such identity is another common feature, namely, that both represent the state of mergence.
22 He who knows for certain the similarity of the three states and the three letters of AUM, based upon their common features, is worshipped and adored by all beings and also is a great sage.
23 Through meditation on A the seeker attains Visva; through meditation on U, Taijasa; and through meditation on M, Prajna. Meditation on the “soundless” brings no attainment.
Mandukya Upanishad – Verse XII:
XII: The Fourth (Turiya) is without parts and without relationship; It is the cessation of phenomena; It is all good and non—dual. This AUM is verily Atman. He who knows this merges his self in Atman—yea, he who knows this.
Tom: like in verse 7, Turiya is again equated with Atman and AUM – it is without any parts, meaning there are no objects that can arise in it, again emphasised by stating it is without relationship – meaning there is no relative ‘truth’ present and it has no relation to objects or phenomena. This is further emphasised when it states ‘It is the cessation of phenomena’, as per verse 7 which states the same. It is all good, meaning it is pure positivity without any negativity whatsoever, without any opposite. It is non-dual, meaning without any time, space, people or objects. It is what you are. Aum Tat Sat. This will be further explained and elaborated upon in the following verses. See here for more on this teaching.
See here for the full text of Gaudapada’s commentary on the Mandukya Upanishad.
